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Motor Size for Outrage 22 Cuddy
LarryLowman	#1  Posted on 03/06/10 - 6:50 PM
Member Posts: 5 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/06/10	I have a couple of Outrage 22 Cuddys in fishing service in Alaska and I have been running 225 HP Mercurys on them for a couple of years. I find the lease price for those engines cut into my profit quite a bit along with the cost of operation. These boats run about 20 miles in calm water to get to the fishing grounds everyday. They fish with kickers when trolling. My question is: what is the minimum size Mercury 4 stroke motor I can operate these boat and still get on plane easily and run 20 knots? My lease is up for the motors and I would like to try to economize the operation as much as possible without causing a safety or a operational problem. Any help would really be appreciated. Larry Lowman Edited by Tom W Clark on 03/07/10 - 9:08 AM
Fishmore	#2  Posted on 03/06/10 - 9:07 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 270 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/20/07	Larry, if you look through the personal pages there are several people with 150 HP and 130 HP motors on either the Revenge 22 or the Outrage w/cuddy 22. You might think about sending those people an email to see how those motors are working for them. Depending on how much weight you carry I would think that the 150 HP motor would be sufficient. But, the price difference between a 150HP and a 200HP motor is only around 3k so it may not be worth it. I took a quick look over at Ed's Superstore which is located in the Carolina's and if you are not stuck on the Verado models then they have some non-current EFI and Optimax motors in the 200 HP range for only 10 - 11K. Maybe there is a delaer near you that has an Optimax or EFI in that price range.
HarleyFXDL	#3  Posted on 03/07/10 - 6:57 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 917 Comments: 30 Joined: 07/24/07	Larry, you should consider which dealer network is in your local area. In the event the motor needs servicing, you would need a repair shop close to get you back on the water. You need to weigh your options and consider which would cost you more, a few thousand up front for a motor with local support or an initial cost savings with a dealer hundreds of miles away. Kevin 1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp. If you think education is expensive, try ignorance "Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman."
LarryLowman	#4  Posted on 03/07/10 - 7:46 AM
Member Posts: 5 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/06/10	Thanks to all that responded. I was hoping that a 150 or 175 would do the job. The boats are stripped down for day fishing with a cover around the helm and seats. I need to lease them for the maintenance aspect. The leaser is the maintenance org and it is next to the lodge. He will drop everything and work through the night to get a boat on the water for us. He is reliable and stands behind his leases, but I think he over sells the engine size for that boat, which in turn makes him more money and cost me more. Fuel consumption is a big deal and it is hard to control the speed and usage of a boat with hired guides/captains. Last year we had to dock pay for those that used the 225's for trolling all day. They have a mated 9 horse kicker with steering from the helm, but they seem to like using the big boys for trolling. This year we will give them a fuel allowance and they can do as they please as long as they don't run out of fuel. But I would like to do that with a lower consuming engines. Great site with good people and info Thanks again larry
HarleyFXDL	#5  Posted on 03/07/10 - 8:11 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 917 Comments: 30 Joined: 07/24/07	How much weight do you have to deal with at the end of the day? This might be the reason your maintenence guy might be hanging a big motor on the back. With a smaller motor, you will cause more wear because of the work you require from it. The carb motors will yield you the worst mpg's. I would go with either DFI 2-strokes or a 4-stroke engine for economy. I believe a standard is 75% of max HP is acceptable for basic performance. Kevin 1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp. If you think education is expensive, try ignorance "Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman."
LarryLowman	#6  Posted on 03/07/10 - 8:32 AM
Member Posts: 5 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/06/10	Kevin, Thanks again. At the end of the day there is seldom more than another 150 to 200 pounds of fish unless there is a really big halibut in the mix and the boat is set up for the guide and two anglers. AND at that time there is less fuel and consumed items on-board. I think the real reason is that the 225 is his standard on the 30 footers and up boats, so he has and sells and leases a lot of 225's. It could be a parts issue also seeing as the parts come from the lower 48. But the one year lease price is half the cost of the engine so I need to get a new plan. Maybe it is sell the 22's and get 26 or 28's and put 4 anglers on the boats at twice the income to pay for the leases. Of course buying the two year old engines with a maintenance contract is also an option. Just thinking through my options for 2010. Thanks again larry
Tom W Clark	#7  Posted on 03/07/10 - 9:25 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	Larry, If I am reading your comments correctly, you want to maximize the cruise speed fuel economy of your Whalers. Trolling is handled by the kickers. You want to cruise 20 miles at 20 knots. Be careful what you choose. Using a smaller motor may not do anything for reducing your fuel costs because it takes a certain amount of energy to propel a boat at 20 knots for 20 miles, regardless of what size motor you use. In fact, it is possible to use a smaller motor and find the fuel economy is actually worse. A smaller motor may burn less fuel at WOT but will have to work closer to WOT to maintain 20 knots, while a larger motor may burn more fuel and go faster, however at slower speeds, like 20 knots, it will not be working nearly as hard and will burn less. Of course the relationship between fuel burn and boat speed is not linear and you need to look at each motor candidate in terms of its known performance. Instead of talking in general terms, why don't we frame the question more precisely: Are you limiting your choices to the Mercury brand? That makes sense if the lessor is next door. Have you been using EFI or DFI two strokes, or Verado or Four Stoke Mercury Outboards until now? Which 150 or 175 HP motors are you considering? How much experimentation have you done with propellers and motor mounting heights? I ask because a simple prop swap can sometimes improve fuel economy 10-15 percent right there.
LarryLowman	#8  Posted on 03/07/10 - 9:53 AM
Member Posts: 5 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/06/10	Really good questions and thoughts. The dealer/ leaser is a Mercury dealer and really does not put anything on boats in the area. He will service other engines but does not supply them. He has a good deal with Mercury and I am sure he does not want to screw that up. So we will probably only use Mercury outboards. I am not sure of the model of engines. I am an investor and sometimes help with some of the operation issues at the lodge but I do not operate it myself. From my experience with those boats and engines, they are very quick, very maneuverable and can run 30 knots easy in calm water. On my own boat I would probably have that engine but for a business boat, I would like one that cost less to own/lease seeing as the commercial use does wear heavy on them. I forgot to mention that when the guys were using the big engines for trolling we went over the allowed engine hours on the lease and that cost a bundle also. From you comments I believe it might be better to buy the two year old motors 225's and get maintenance contracts from the dealer. That would be cheaper at least for this coming year. Sometime during the year a decision will be made for 2011 on those two boats. BTW we contract 6 other boats/guides that have the larger boats. All of them are 30 footer and above. The only boats owned by the lodge are these two Whalers. BUT we are thinking of purchasing our own fleet of 4 person pilothouse boats for the lodge. Maybe this whole discussion will be mute if we do that next year. Thanks again larry
number9	#9  Posted on 03/07/10 - 6:41 PM
Member Posts: 210 Comments: 1 Joined: 03/13/08	Have ever thought of going with twin 4-stroke 90HP and eliminate the kickers? Bill...On the Ogeechee 1984 Outrage 18...Yamaha T50...that's right, 50hp
denniscraig	#10  Posted on 03/19/10 - 8:00 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 31 Comments: 1 Joined: 07/31/09	Put this into perspective: I have an '89 Outrage 18 and have dropped from a 2 cycle Johnson 150 down to a 2008 115 ETEC. I took off the 3 blade 15 X 15 alum prop and put on a 14 3/4 X 16 4 blade SS prop. I can now hold any rpm speed, I previously cruised @ 28 mph @ 4500 rpm, now I'm going 32 mph at the same rpm's, and previous WOT was 34.8 mph @ 5600 rpm, now going just under 40 mph @ 5500. More speed with better fuel economy. Scale that up for your size and weight boats and you may have your answer. The ETEC's are a dream!!! Dennis Craig
HarleyFXDL	#11  Posted on 03/20/10 - 7:58 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 917 Comments: 30 Joined: 07/24/07	Dennis, I can understand you re-powering. I have a 1999 Johnson 150 2-stroke and my WOT is about 45 mph. If you were getting only 34.8 mph, your old motor must have been gone. Kevin 1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp. If you think education is expensive, try ignorance "Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman."
LarryLowman	#12  Posted on 03/20/10 - 11:11 AM
Member Posts: 5 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/06/10	Thanks for this thread. I have learned a lot. I just hope now I can apply it. larry