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Propeller choice - 1990 V6 225 Evinrude VRO
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| cdnwhaler |
Posted on 05/02/05 - 7:20 AM
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I'm trying to get a handle on propellers and their design properties but I've become confused (not a difficult thing to do in my case).
In everything I've found the concern is how to accomplish max speed and sometimes hole shot.
My concern is fuel efficiency for Great Lake cruising & camping/fishing with my kids. Waterskiing will be done but they're only little kids!
It's a 1984 Outrage 22', 1990 225 V6 Evinrude VRO, specs say Gear ratio is 14:36 (.538) The current aluminum prop has no markings except SP on it. I also carry extra weight, 9.9 Evinrude, stern seat, lots of canvas & junk for a family of 4 to weekend camp aboard, and I'm on a diet.
Ideas are greatly appreciated even it's not propeller related. Tips are good! Or what to look out for. Anything guys ! These pump prices are scaring me
You should also know that this boat is new to me. Only managed to use it 2 days in the late fall so my current data is not very good but in those 2 days it did seem a tad excessive.
Regards,
1984 Outrage 22 |
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| Teak Oil |
Posted on 05/02/05 - 3:04 PM
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What speed do you get with your current prop and what rpms at WOT?
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| cdnwhaler |
Posted on 05/02/05 - 5:16 PM
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Unfortunately due to my newness with the boat I have not recorded these stats. Considering the 2 hail storms and 3 brief snow storms today that statiscal survey gathering may be a few more days / weeks.
Your response is good though because I really didn't know what information to gather and provide to answer my query.
Which brings to mind that I may have an opportunity to dunk the boat this coming weekend.( snow or no snow) I do not have a GPS, yet, but I do have an older fishfinder installed that records speed/mileage. etc
What do I need to record to help this topic? So if someone can tell me what to record with my limited gauges by Thursday, I can post more qualifying information Monday.
Thanks.
Edited by cdnwhaler on 05/02/05 - 5:53 PM
1984 Outrage 22 |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 05/02/05 - 5:53 PM
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Peter,
Let me start with the basics here as I know them. Speed is not important at this time, this will come later in the fine tuning.
1. Most important factor is having a tachometer. The prop selected should perform within the range of what the engine manual states for the Maximum RPM's.
Example: If your engine books states that your engine should run at max RPM's between 4500 and 5500 RPM, then your choice for a prop would let the engine run in those ranges.
If you are using a 19 pitch (forget about the diameter for now), and you are getting only 4500 RPM's, then you need to drop down to a smaller pitch prop like a 17 pitch or a 15 pitch.
On the other hand, if you are running a 19 pitch prop and your tach shows 6000 RPM's, then you need to move up to a 21 pitch prop.
Those are the basics. You need to get the right pitch prop so your engine will run very close to the recommended max RPM's. Next, fine tuning and what you want in performance.
Here is another example from my personal past experience with a 70hp Evinrude.
1. I used a 17 pitch prop which would give me a little faster top end speed but it was slower out of the hole. The Max RPM's fell within the recommendations from the manual. Both of these were around 5200 to 5400 RPM's.
2. I used a 15 pitch prop which was much faster out of the whole for water skiing etc., but was about a mile an hour or 2 slower than the 17 pitch. This prop also fell within the recommendations from the manual for max RPM's.
So, now I could use either prop for whatever my intentions were for the day. Water skiing I would use the 15 pitch, and for top end speed I could use the 17 pitch. Usually I just left the 15 pitch on as I never was concerned about top speed.
That's about it for the basics... If you want to get fancier and race your boat, then you need to start looking at cupped props, double cupped props, 4 bladed props, etc., etc... and, you would have to talk to someone else besides me.... 
So, start with the basics and make sure your engine RPM's fall between what your manual says. Good Luck..
Edited by Joe Kriz on 05/02/05 - 5:56 PM |
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| cdnwhaler |
Posted on 05/02/05 - 6:05 PM
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You were posting as I was editing Joe.
I have what I believe to be the original OMC "text book/manual" for this motor so I if can make it to to the lake this weekend (snow or no snow) I'll try to document all the readings at all speeds and rpm's etc.
I have a speedo, I have a tach, and I have the Fishfinder with transducer? I just hope they are all reasonably accurate.
It would be nice to figure out what exactly is on there now too. And the spare that came with it.
Edited by cdnwhaler on 05/02/05 - 6:07 PM
1984 Outrage 22 |
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| cdnwhaler |
Posted on 05/02/05 - 6:28 PM
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Okay, so the kids are looking at me strangely for crawling around in the dark and rain under the canvas outside. But...
The spare prop that came with boat has 14-1/2 X 19 on it. it also has MN216 on another location. The prop on the motor still only has the SP I mentioned previously. Nothing else.
May I assume this spare prop is 14 1/2 inches witha 19 degree pitch?
Edited by cdnwhaler on 05/02/05 - 6:30 PM
1984 Outrage 22 |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 05/02/05 - 6:31 PM
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Peter,
Speedometers are very seldom accurate and speed is not important at this time. Only RPM's of an accurate tach are important.
Props are usually marked in one or two of 3 places.
1. On the outside between 2 of the blades
2. On the back of the hub around the area of the retaining nut
3. On the front of the prop hub. (you must remove the prop to see the markings)
Look at your spare prop closely. It should have the diameter, pitch and part number somewhere as mentioned above.
Again, try not to concern yourself with speed... Only the Tach RPM's.... This will keep things a little easier for the time being.
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| cdnwhaler |
Posted on 05/02/05 - 6:38 PM
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Again we were crossing posts.
But, although the current prop only shows what I mentioned on the outside, I did find on the spare, sitting here on my desk, where to look on the hub for the info when I remove the current prop. And remove the grunge.
Seems odd the spare has all the obvious marking between the blades on the outside but not the current installed prop.
Thanks
Edited by cdnwhaler on 05/02/05 - 6:41 PM
1984 Outrage 22 |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 05/02/05 - 6:55 PM
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Now you are getting somewhere...
14 1/2 x 19 pitch is correct... Generally the pitch is given last.
That seems to be the same prop that my V6 150 hp uses.
If your other prop says nothing, I would put the 19 pitch on and see what you get for RPM's. Then we know where to go from there.
On my Evinrude 150, I dropped down in pitch to 17 because I prefer the hole shot and not top end speed. My RPM's still fall within the range called for in the manual...
Are we crossing post again........ ?????
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| Teak Oil |
Posted on 05/02/05 - 10:03 PM
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I would check and see what Jeff is running since they have almost the same engine and the same boat
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| cdnwhaler |
Posted on 05/03/05 - 6:20 AM
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I mentioned above I would try to dunk the boat this weekend - not so.
It's the 100th anniverssary of my alma mater high school Corps and my business partner's son is the CO, Lt. Colonel. My presence is expected. Plus it's the year end grad for my nephew at RMC. Royal Military College. And Sunday is Mothers Day!
My disappearing to the lake for boat trials may not be appreciated What was I thinking?!
I'll pull the current prop to check it's numbers and I'll Hail Jeff in the meantime.
On a good note, all the gauges are very new Teleflex so I'll have to assume the tach is accurate.
1984 Outrage 22 |
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| Jeff |
Posted on 05/03/05 - 9:21 AM
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Peter I run a standard Stainless OMC prop with a 14 or a 14 1/2 x 19 pitch on the 235. I have a pretty good hole shot and a GPS measured top speed of 43mph. My WOT rpms at 5500 - 5700. It is a pretty good prop all around but it will ventilate in hard turns.
Edited by Jeff on 05/03/05 - 9:22 AM
1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive |
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| cdnwhaler |
Posted on 05/03/05 - 9:29 AM
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Thanks Jeff, except for the stainless part it sounds indentical to my spare. Now I need to pull what's on there. See if it's the same or different. I'll let you know. See if anyone has an opinion of which one to try first.
1984 Outrage 22 |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 05/03/05 - 12:24 PM
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Peter,
The 14 1/2 x 19 still sounds like the correct prop and Jeff uses the same thing as I mentioned above for my V6 150hp.
The part number for the Aluminum 14 1/2 x 19 is #391201
The part number for the SST 14 1/2 x 19 is #389924
A size up would be 14 1/4 x 21 pitch
A size down would be 15 x 17 pitch
The props mentioned above are all OMC (now Bombardier) props and the numbers may have been superceded.
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| cdnwhaler |
Posted on 05/06/05 - 3:16 PM
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Joe,
The current prop is also 14 1/2 x 19 and they both have # 391201 on them, matching your indicated OMC aluminum part number.
Maybe I should find find another 225 to go with the prop. I certainly wouldn't have to worry about WOT.
Next step - - water.
1984 Outrage 22 |
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| cdnwhaler |
Posted on 06/13/05 - 9:51 AM
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Something is a little odd. At WOT the rpms are 4600. Seems low from what other folks say.
From the manual:
Full throttle operating range should be 5000 to 6000 rpm.
Power rated at 5500 rpm
Test propellor OMC P/N 387388
Miniumum Test rpm 5700 rpm
I fail to see how this will effect anything but I should mention that at WOT there seemed to be an unusally high rooster tail. Since I was alone I decided not to crawl over the transom to see if the doel fin was below or above water. Also, this boat came with those "Smart tabs". Not "real" trim tabs like Bennett or Lenco.
So from what Joe stated earlier I should be trying 17 pitch prop instead of the 19 I currently have on it?
Any ideas on achieving my desired cruising fuel economy anyone?
Pete
Edited by cdnwhaler on 06/13/05 - 10:04 AM
1984 Outrage 22 |
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| cdnwhaler |
Posted on 06/15/05 - 6:09 PM
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Okay,
I'll try a 14.5 X 17, 15 X 17 or what ever is the next one down, and see what happens when I get the chance.
Peter
1984 Outrage 22 |
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| Jeff |
Posted on 06/16/05 - 5:45 AM
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Peter the 4600 rpm WOT seems low. I would check the stops on the throttle linkage in the motor housing to make sure that they really are opening up all the way. Also the tabs that are on your boat....I take it you do not like them? I saw them and wondered about how good they work. I also would say remove either the doel fin or the tabs. They are both doing the same thing so you really do not need them both.
1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive |
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| cdnwhaler |
Posted on 06/16/05 - 5:57 AM
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Jeff, it does appear to me the tabs AND doel fin are redundant. It's not that I don't like the tabs, just that I wish they were Lenco or Benetts. At lower speeds the tabs do very little except increase drag. I think I'll get rid of them, not the doel fin.
Didn't think about the linkage. I'm going to the lake this afternoon. I'll see what I can determine.
Thanks
Peter
1984 Outrage 22 |
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| cdnwhaler |
Posted on 06/17/05 - 8:47 AM
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I didn't have time to take your advice in the heavy rain yesterday Jeff, But it was turning 5,000 rpms. Maybe it just needed an extra few miles after the long winter hibernation ?
I'd still like to get it to 5500 though so I think a 14 1/2 X 17 may be the one to try.
Thanks,
Peter
1984 Outrage 22 |
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