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evinrude 100, 1979. no balls, overheating
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| SToomey006 |
Posted on 07/05/09 - 11:04 PM
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Alright so i killed the battery last night bc i forgot to turn off the fishfinder. so when i put her in the water today, she tilted down, and then was dead as a doornob. So a guy nearby gave me a jump. so i went out and started cruising at about 1/2 or 2/3 throttle, and then bumped up to 3/4 or so for like 3 seconds, and all of a sudden it sounded almost like it was pinging. and I lost a significant amount of power. like i could still plain and go prob like 25, but it just didnt sound right. so i figured it was bc of the battery and kept going. got to fishing spot, like a mile or so from when she started pinging, which seemed to go away actually, but still didnt have nearly as much power as usual. almost seemed like i had a much higher pitched prop, till getting on plain of course as the top end was not consistant (as far as the pitch simile is concerned). so then got to the spot, idled for 15 mins bc figd bat wasnt charged yet. (raised rpm idle tho, not idle rpm so to speak, just not ingear) then went to shift into gear, stalled, and thankfully she started right back up, (had plenty of bat power), but she wouldnt idle for long and i had to like rev and shift on the way back down just missing the stall.
then heading back, (after 30 fluke between the 3 of us.... only 1 keeper lol) all of a sudden i noticed the hot light was on. so i stopped. water flowing perfectly well out the back, so not waterpump. fig'd too lean gas? but i mean ive been mixing gas since i was 11, i know i did it right, and i always go a little rich. but whatev, added more oil, lik 5oz, bc couldnt think of anything else it could be. started back up, ran 4 3 mins, hot again. anchored, waited 10 mins, drove another 5 mins, hot again. got kicker running, putted along against the moon outgoing tide up the ct river, barely makin headway 4 20 mins. then started her again and ran 3/4 mile or so back upriver to the launch (15 mins). didnt overheat but still no balls.
What should my 1st course of action be?
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| Narragansett Outrage |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 4:17 AM
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I've got an '83 Evinrude 235 - had the same problem as you up here in Narragansett Bay on Saturday.
First thing is to check the thermostats - one (or both) could be stuck. One of mine was so hot that the internal plastic part had melted. I'm going to replace both thermostats today, and see about changing the head gaskets (may as well do both sides).
Whatever you do now, you'll probably want to replace your head gaskets - you can then see if the overheat caused any permanent damage to any of the cylinders. If not, still go ahead make sure that you tighten the bolts down.
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| RevengeFamily |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 5:07 AM
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I have a 1984 Johnson V-4 90 on my 1967 Sakonnet. We have what we call "eel grass" down in southern New Jersey bays. The grass is long and paper thin. It use to get drawn up into the cooling system and get stuck around the thermostats. I know I pulled the thermostats out way back in 1986 to prevent overheats. Has never caused me any grief. Probably have close to 2,000 hrs on that engine.
Wish I could say the same thing about my 1999 225 Merc's...
Just my 2 cents
Norm
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| Narragansett Outrage |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 5:53 AM
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I never thought of that - is it possible to just run the thing without the thermostats in there at all? Crap - I should have pulled the thing out of there as soon as the warning buzzer went off, rather than puttering the whole back to the dock.
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| SToomey006 |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 6:36 AM
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im not sure when the water pump was changed, but it flows out of the motor as strong as ever. And doez anything explain why ive lost so much horsepower?
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| Narragansett Outrage |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 6:50 AM
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I believe that these old Evinrude's have something called S.L.O.W. - don't ask me what it means... but when the engine overheats, it automatically limits the horsepower to 2500rpms.
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| Narragansett Outrage |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 6:53 AM
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Just did a search and found S.L.O.W. = Speed Limiting Overheat Warning.
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 7:51 AM
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First thing I'd suggest is a compression test on each cylinder. Based on the results, I'd pull the heads and do a visual inspection of the cylinder walls and of each spark plug. If there's no visible damage, while the heads are off, you can pull and replace the thermostats as well as clean out the water passages (careful to keep the debris out of the cylinders). When you pick up the new head gasket, ask the parts guy if they recommend the thicker gasket to lower compression a bit (OMC released one for certain models). I'd also pick up a new water pump kit and swap that out, looking for signs of blockage in the screens and housing.
Next take a look at your warning horn to see why it didn't sound on the overheat.
Once it's all back together and running, you still have to be a bit careful as there could be a carb/fuel supply issue that's causing a lean condition.
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| MW |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 9:05 AM
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Not sure if they had "S.L.O.W" mode in 1979, I thought they were only on the newer engines.
Matt |
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| SToomey006 |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 3:03 PM
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Derwd24 wrote:
Once it's all back together and running, you still have to be a bit careful as there could be a carb/fuel supply issue that's causing a lean condition.
Yea I was going to say, on my old 95 8hp merc i used to own, there was a rich/lean mixture screw that could be adjusted, and i was wondering if maybe it was too lean. I suppose i should say hoping. But so as far as the compression test is comcerned, are we thinking ive lost compression on one or more cylinders, thus causing the lack of power?
THank you all very much. I'm hoping its simple but dreading the worst.
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| theo |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 3:05 PM
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Just thinking about your battery. You drained it dead, then jumped it and went fishing. I wonder if the engine wasn't getting enough voltage to run the ignition? Weak spark might help explain loss of power, and poor timing could explain the pinging and the overheating. It pisses like a racehorse so doesn't that mean the thermostat isn't blocked?
Does the battery hold a charge? Can you swap a good battery in and see how it goes?
Edited by theo on 07/06/09 - 3:07 PM
Ted
1985 15' CC, 1994 60 hp Merc (Wednesday built), 5" jack plate |
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| SToomey006 |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 3:10 PM
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I'll charge her when I get home from work. I think the batt is good. but maybe not. I can buy one from walmart if it doesnt hold a charge. GOD that would be sweet if thats the case
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| MW |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 3:34 PM
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I have an '04 Johnson 50h.p. bought new in '05, last year the thermostat got stuck, the engine ran hot enough to put itself in "SLOW" mode (power loss) but, the water pump was pumping well, and just slightly warm (where it should be) and the "over heat" alarm did NOT trip "ON". A friend put his finger on the cyl. head and went for the "1-2-3" second count (you should be able to count to "1-2-3" second's before you have to remove your finger's from getting burned, this about normal operating temp.) and was pulling his hand off the cyl. head before he got to "2", he said "she's runnin too hot", we replaced the "Thermostat" (took about 20 min's of running to clear the electronic's on the motor afterward's too), and she returned to "FULL POWER". We tested the "over heat" Alarm/horn by grounding it out, and it tripped right "ON" (sys. check chirp's when key is turned on indicating all sys. working too). What I learned was that the engine can get hot enough to throw the motor into "S.L.O.W" mode but, the "Over heat" alarm will not trip "ON". Water pump was doing it's job too, so it was "Confusing".
Matt |
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 5:32 PM
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I'm pretty sure you're right Matt, I don't remember any SLOW safety on those era engines unfortunately...
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| ioptfm |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 5:44 PM
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I do not think the motor has gone into slow mode, and don't think it has that feature, but those of you that do have that, all you have to do is run it in reverse for a short period of time after it has cooled down and it will reset to normal.......again, I do not think that is your problem though
Tom
1979 Sport 15' |
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| dmacneil227 |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 6:13 PM
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I owned a 1975 115 hp OMC. Your symptoms remind me of a blown power pack, which happened quite a few times during the years I owned that engine. Once I jumped a friends dead battery and I immediately recognized that I blew the power pack. When buying a new pack the mechanic told me that you cannot jump outboards, that it will blown the diodes in these packs. I don't recall any over heating issues, but the loss of power and power surges does sound like you blew out the power pack.
cheers, don
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| MW |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 6:26 PM
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I don't think that he's in "S.L.O.W" mode either, I DO think that he may be running "Hot" and performance is suffering due to "Thermostat's", "Pump", or blockage of water passages, Gasket, or possibly any combo. of what everyone posted above. I would change out thermostat's 1st (cheapest), then pick up a water pump kit (like Dave said), he's gonna need one anyway, and then move from there to fuel sys. after/if the "Cooling" system check's out o.k.. I'm "GUESSING" Water pump or thermostat's (tough call without engine to inspect).
Matt |
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| Turpin |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 7:11 PM
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My opinion is that the big picture is being missed. Look at the story and not just the end of it, is it possible that damage to electronics could have occurred been or at least upset and just need a fresh charged battery. I know stranger things have happened and all sorts of problems have occurred at the same time but I would look at how all of this started I.E. jump starting the motor. I couldn't imagine that would damage anything but then again look at the issues that have occurred since that incident. Could it have possibly damaged the magneto, stator, coils or power packs which in turn could cause weak spark which would cause a lack of power and possibly other erroneous problems.
It just seems odd that electrical issues would be over looked when all of this happened after jump starting.
1963 13' Sport 50hp Evinrude
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| RevengeFamily |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 7:21 PM
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theo wrote:
Just thinking about your battery. You drained it dead, then jumped it and went fishing. I wonder if the engine wasn't getting enough voltage to run the ignition? Weak spark might help explain loss of power, and poor timing could explain the pinging and the overheating. It pisses like a racehorse so doesn't that mean the thermostat isn't blocked?
Does the battery hold a charge? Can you swap a good battery in and see how it goes?
Outboards of this vintage, as long as the ignition system is healthy can run with a stone dead battery. They will generate their own power for the ignition sytem. There have been times where I've had a dead battery, turned the key to the run position, and pull started my 90hp on the second pull. It was a fantastic design.
As far as the cooling system is concerned, you can have plenty of water exiting the water tell tale and have next to no water heading to the power head. Very little water gets to the block if the thermostats are plugged. Once the engine warms, a healthy thermostat opens to allow cool water to flow. If your engine was overheating do to lack of coolant, the cylinders were RED hot. Your pinging (pre ignition) was caused by glowing pieces of carbon on the head that were igniting the fuel air mixture before the spark was firing. Unless your battery will not hold a charge, save your money.
Replace or remove your thermostats before you kill your engine.
Norm
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| Whaler warrior |
Posted on 07/06/09 - 8:07 PM
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I have a 1979 johnson 100hp. outboard, & it does have the s-l-o-w mode that it goes into if it is overheating. It wont allow the motor to go over about 2500 rpm until it cools down. If the warning horn is working--you should have heard it go off. hope this helps, Rich
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