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Teak Prep for Varnish
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| roffers |
Posted on 05/09/09 - 7:07 AM
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1. After sanding with 80 and 120, do i need to use a chemical teak cleaner?
2. Second questions, do I wipe down the surface with mineral spirits and then allow to dry before applying first coat of varnish?
3. If I am varnishing a RPS, do I varnish the inside or just the exterior wood and edges?
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| NauticalLumber |
Posted on 05/09/09 - 9:17 AM
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..........wipe teak with Acetone on a clean white rag. We seal our teak projects with west system epoxy. 105 resin & 207 special coatings hardner. 2 coats sand in between with 150 grit. then appy 6- 10 coats of varnish.
Varnish insde & out. All edges.
Regards,
Mike
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 05/09/09 - 11:07 AM
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NEVER use chemical teak cleaners on teak. They easily brighten the wood in the short term but degrade the wood in the long term.
I recommend skipping the acetone (or any other solvent) wipe and apply a base coat of Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil.
Wet sand this coat into the teak with 220-400 grit wet/dry sand paper and allow it to dry.
You can varnish right over this base and the wet sanding will allow the dust and oil mixture to fill the grain at the same time.
Absolutely seal/varnish all surfaces to keep the piece "balanced".
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| NauticalLumber |
Posted on 05/09/09 - 7:15 PM
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Tom W Clark wrote:
NEVER use chemical teak cleaners on teak. They easily brighten the wood in the short term but degrade the wood in the long term.
I recommend skipping the acetone (or any other solvent) wipe and apply a base coat of Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil.
Wet sand this coat into the teak with 220-400 grit wet/dry sand paper and allow it to dry.
You can varnish right over this base and the wet sanding will allow the dust and oil mixture to fill the grain at the same time.
Absolutely seal/varnish all surfaces to keep the piece "balanced".
This is why I dont care to post one here....im sure others feel the same way. There's always someone who knows more or best or thinks they have more experience and underminds or takes away from the credibility of a professonal.
If you do not remove the oil before VARNISHING you WILL lose adhesion.
Regards,
Mike
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| Jeff |
Posted on 05/09/09 - 8:18 PM
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While I never like to varnish Teak (I only oil), I was always taught in my furniture design and construction classes that you MUST use a thinner or acetone on teak before you can varnish or seal it. The wood has so many natural oils in it that any varnish you put on will prematurely release from the wood if they are not removed.
1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive |
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| kamie |
Posted on 05/10/09 - 7:56 AM
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Mike,
I am sorry you don't feel that two professionals can disagree on a process without undermining the credibility of either. I know that Tom has been refinishing wood for years although I believe the technique he describes was described and used by Rebecca Wittman co-owner of a yacht refinishing company, The Teak Twins. I suspect that that fully qualifies her as a professional, along with the two books she has published on the subject.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 05/10/09 - 8:03 AM
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I too was taught you must clean the natural oils off of teak before varnishing. I am sure Mike and Brian were too. Indeed that is what I always used to do until I learned from a professional boat varnisher here in Seattle about the SeaFin Teak Oil sealer trick.
I was skeptical as well but it works very very well with no loss of adhesion.
The professional boat varnisher was Rebecca Wittman. She literally wrote the book about varnishing when BRIGHTWORK: The Art of Finishing Wood was published.
In BRIGHTWORK, Whittman makes the case for not using a solvent wipe and sealing instead, I don't entirely understand it nor do I care about the chemistry of it, I just like that it works.
There are so many thing we are taught as gospel and several in boating go unchallenged for generations as fathers teach their sons. "Never store a battery on a concrete..." "Never use a stainless steel prop if you don't want gearcase damage..." " You must wipe teak with acetone before varnishing..." etc.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 05/10/09 - 8:17 AM
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This is why I don't care to post one here....im sure others feel the same way. There's always someone who knows more or best or thinks they have more experience and underminds or takes away from the credibility of a professonal.
Mike -- I am sorry you feel that way. The whole purpose of online discussions is to allow everybody the opportunity to contribute their opinions. If you like to offer yours but then not have anybody else challenge them, then yes, online discussions are not for you.
As a professional woodworker myself for 20-some years, I think I know a little about wood finishing. My work is good enough to have appeared in Fine Homebuilding Magazine and is on the cover of at least one book published by the Taunton Press. While I am not a professional boat anything, I also like to think I know a little about boats and Whalers through my love of them and my experience.
We must always remember that these discussions are not only for the benefit of those participating but also for many, many others who are reading this and who will be reading this in the future as they research different topics.
It is very rare that there is only one correct way of doing something. For a guy who asks for advice of prepping the teak on his Whaler before varnishing it, my advice may be very helpful and economical.
For others with more resources, they could epoxy coat their teak and then varnish it or use automotive clearcoat in lieu of varnish or any other of several other methods.
But honestly, for those who would go to extreme lengths to achieve perfection on their Whalers, I might advise them to contact Mike at Nautical Lumber and have new, prefinished woodwork made to order. How could a guy do better than that?
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| PB88 |
Posted on 05/10/09 - 9:19 AM
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I remember very well my former almost brother-in-law's cabinet shop in Portland a true genius with wood, lots of them right? This dude is the real deal and I know only one other personally. Whenever they had a job using teak they always took great care prepping the mating surfaces for gluing - one dude used acetone, Dave used white vinegar before applying glue. They used some kind of pro-glues "brown glue", white glue one was probably Resourciol. In any case that's a few years back and I still have a laminated teak "priest" (to bop salmon over the head) that is perfect.
I totally agree with prepping teak with marine oil before varnishing. I have never used epoxy for base coats. Bottom line to me is I don't think I'd varnish teak. I think it's an oily wood that is best oiled as necessary. Not that I would never varnish teak, if I ever get a boat w/ teak but there is absolutely nothing wrong with marine oil base coats under spar varnish.
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| NauticalLumber |
Posted on 05/10/09 - 10:50 AM
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NauticalLumber wrote:
..........wipe teak with Acetone on a clean white rag. We seal our teak projects with west system epoxy. 105 resin & 207 special coatings hardner. 2 coats sand in between with 150 grit. then appy 6- 10 coats of varnish.
Varnish insde & out. All edges.
Regards,
Mike
......I think you may be missing my point.
I do not have a problem with different views of how to do something......and i dont disagree with "toms opinion" of using teak oil. 
Theres many ways to finish a piece of wood........just like theres different ways to glue up an 11" board right? 
My 2 cents is this:
If one of you ask a question, and somone takes the time to give a credible answer. I dont post a reply saying "Never" do this. .........as to take away from their opinion.
If you read my reply to the question. It never says "this is the only way" or "Never" use ,,,whatever. It only says "this is what we do"
I try to keep my opinions professional & to the point with out taking away from others opinions. However, because im a paying sponsor & many who come to this forum purchase interior pcs. from Nautical Lumber......If your post or answer to my post directly contridicts what i have to say......than you can count on me speaking up.
Regards,
Mike
........Oh & happy mothers day to all the moms! 
Edited by NauticalLumber on 05/10/09 - 11:08 AM |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 05/10/09 - 11:29 AM
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Mike,
I now realize you have completely misunderstood what I wrote.
I never said not what to do what you recommend. I said never to use a chemical cleaner to clean teak. I was referring to teak brighteners and two part cleaners like Te-Ka and others.
I was NOT referring to the use of acetone to pull oil out of teak.
When you replied to roffer's initial post, you answered question #2.
When I replied to roffers, I was answering question #1.
We were talking about two different things.
Edited by Tom W Clark on 05/10/09 - 11:37 AM |
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| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 05/26/09 - 8:44 PM
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Tom, how do you finish teak? I like the idea of a shiny surface with minimal upkeep. I used teak oil on my teak and it died back within a month. I would like a longer lasting effect.
Edited by HarleyFXDL on 05/27/09 - 6:14 AM |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 05/28/09 - 6:42 AM
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I like a rubbed teak oil finish. If you like shiny then varnish will get you there but varnish is a lot of upkeep itself. Whaler used a urethane coating that was quite good in the 1970s and 1980s but anything that nice will eventually fail unless you keep top coating it season to season.
By brother-in-law, a boat builder, woodworker and professional sailer has given up on varnish because it is not durable. He now clear coats woodwork with automotive clear coat he sprays and says it is far more durable. You can check out some of his woodwork here:
http://olsenmarine.com
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| Mr T |
Posted on 05/28/09 - 7:16 AM
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What about using the teak oil on mahogany?
my console is having problems in less than one season with the old pieces I saved, i.e the corners and solid pieces. All the plywood is new and the varnish is fine, but some of the old pieces are all peeling off. I sanded them down to fresh bright wood, no chemicals at all, and did the same prep on them as the ply.
I'm wondering if the old mahogany is just too dried out?
Anyone have a suggestion?
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| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 05/28/09 - 3:36 PM
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On my Montauk, I sanded everything down and used a premium teak oil. After two months, I noticed the wood dying back. What is the best proceedure to use to get long lasting results without too much upkeep?
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| modenacart |
Posted on 05/28/09 - 4:58 PM
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I used cetol marine. It seems to be doing pretty well right now.
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| Crash |
Posted on 05/28/09 - 5:07 PM
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Touched you last! Your it!
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