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Need help to evaluate a Whaler
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| Tig |
Posted on 04/11/09 - 10:41 AM
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On my personal page are pictures of a Dauntless 15 that I am considering buying. I have commented on what I see in the pictures and I would really appreciate the comments and advice of Whaler owners.
I like the Dauntless 15's size and hull shape. My bay is very exposed to Lake Ontario and a two foot chop is still a nice day for fishing. Occasional day trips into the main lake would only be done if the weather was permitting.
The engine is minimal, a 50 Honda. Reasonably light and four stroke. I like the thought of gas mileage. I'll have to drive it to see if I am OK with the performance. The boat is 4 hours away and the lakes are still frozen up there.
The boat was taken in on trade at a January boat show site unseen as a 1996. It was sequestered in a boat house until now. The dealer has now seen the boat and has sent me pictures noting that someone may have pulled a fast one. You see, the HIN and registration show that this is clearly a 95 but the original bill of sale indicates "96 order boat". It's a one owner boat up to now.
The price I have discussed with the dealer was for a 1996, does one year on top of 13 make much difference? I was hoping for the built in fuel tank and I like the closed RPS on those years. Other than that is there any difference between 95 and 96?
Once again I would appreciate all opinions and any discussion on the condition and value of this boat as well as comments on the repairs that it may need.
Thank you.
Steve the wanabe Whaler owner.
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| Phil T |
Posted on 04/11/09 - 11:36 AM
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The rubrail can be replaced by ordering the track and insert from any dealer.
The gas line runs under the deck in a rigging tunnel to the stern.
While she looks pretty good for her age, I think you will want a larger boat for the conditions you will have. For an exposed lake as significant as Lake Ontario, I think the boat will be a bit small and will be uncomfortable in a good chop. Having a boat too small or uncomfortable for the typical sea state and keeps you off the water is a frustrating thing. Been there.
I would consider a early 90's Dauntless 18 or 80's Outrage 18 for the same money (~9-11k US).
Boat prices are in the basement so it is a great time to buy. Don't get fooled by dealers.
Pick a nice snotty day for your sea trial before buying and make up your own mind. Spending big bucks on a boat deserves doing proper due diligence to ensure you get what you want/need.
Research similar model/year boats on Boattrader, Yachtworld, and Craigslist to get realistic pricing.
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| Tig |
Posted on 04/11/09 - 1:10 PM
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Thanks Phil
I have been blown off Lake Ontario while trying to fish Salmon in a 24' boat. We also cut an afternoon on the bay short last year because it was no fun in our 10' boat.  The bay has a narrow sandbar that acts like a breakwater so we are protected from waves but not wind. 99% of my fishing is within a mile of home and within a few hundred yards of shore. This would be the largest boat I've ever owned in forty years of boating on this bay. I did look at an 18 Outrage last year. A beautiful boat but I really want to stay in the 70 HP range. Launching an 18 from my lift would be just that much more of an issue during late season when the water level is typically down 3'or more.
Living on the water and working from home gives me time to be picky about which days I fish. If I had an 18 I'd never have an reason to not go fishing and the grass would never get cut.
Converting to USD the price is in the low 6K range. I've not found one cheaper on the net. There is another in my area but it's a year older and priced 2K CND higher.
I uploaded a couple more pics. One is a closeup of the rubrail damage. The other looks like a crack in the glass and gelcoat up by the front light.
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| Phil T |
Posted on 04/11/09 - 3:30 PM
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In a medium to hard hit on the gunnel from a piling or dock will push the rubber insert into the plastic track, resulting in the damage you show. Once the track breaks, the insert looses the slot holding it in. I have seen worse.
It will be very hard to tell the exact extent of wear and condition until you see the boat in person. Some boats look great in photos and like poo in reality and vice-versa.
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| jimmyb116 |
Posted on 04/11/09 - 5:44 PM
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I have a 1999 Dauntless 14 and its a great boat. I use it all the time in 2' chop on the west coast of BC canada no problem. 50 hp is going to be a slug! I run a 90hp 2stroke mercury lots of power and you need it to push through the tide and chop.
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| Tig |
Posted on 04/11/09 - 6:21 PM
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I was expecting the rubrail track to be aluminum, but now that you mention it the picture shows that it is plastic. That should be OK to work with for repair or replacement.
So that leaves me to consider the crack at the bow light. It looks very small. Judging by the reflection in the gelcoat the area looks flat and clean. So it's not caused by swelling or an impact from above. It almost looks like it could be a flaw in the glass underneath. The cause of the crack is of more concern than the repair.
I uploaded another picture. It's a close up of the gelcoat. It shines nicely but I expected it to be smoother. It could be that light through the window and the camera angle team up to make it more noticeable than it would normally be. Maybe I'm being too critical but now the time to be like that. If I buy the boat I'll take pics like that down. 
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| Tig |
Posted on 04/11/09 - 7:04 PM
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jimmyb116 wrote:
I have a 1999 Dauntless 14 and its a great boat. ........ 50 hp is going to be a slug!
I'm a bit concerned about the HP but keep in mind that a 15 Dauntless is 150 lbs lighter than your boat. The Honda 50 is also 130 lbs lighter than a 70 Evinrude. I'm sure the 90 makes your boat get up and dance. My dad has a 140 on a 16' and that's not what I'm looking for in this boat.
99% of the time it will be myself and perhaps one passenger in the boat. I'll test drive with three in the boat to see if it's OK. I'll also bring my GPS along for the test drive. That will allow me to collect some acceleration and top speed stats to go along with my impressions. I'm expecting a top end of about 30 MPH. I'm OK with that.
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 04/11/09 - 7:31 PM
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My Evinrude 70 weighed 248 pounds.
You must have a real lightweight Honda 50 if it weighs 130 pounds less than my engine. That means your Honda 50 weighs 118 pounds...
No Way...
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| Tig |
Posted on 04/11/09 - 8:14 PM
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You're right Joe. I was thinking of the 75 etec which is 120 lbs more than the Honda.
Edited by Tig on 04/11/09 - 8:17 PM |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 04/11/09 - 8:22 PM
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Just trying to get things into perspective.
An E-Tec 60hp weighs 35 pounds more than your Honda 50 and will give you 10 more HP...
I think you just need to float this boat and give it a trial run...
If it fits your needs, then buy it.
Without having me to look this model up, what is the max hp rating?
The Classic 15's were 70 hp.
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| Tig |
Posted on 04/11/09 - 8:36 PM
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It's rated for a 6O.
I did not look at the 60 ETEC. That would be worth checking out if I decide to repower.
What do you think about the crack?
Edited by Tig on 04/11/09 - 8:56 PM |
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| ugageo |
Posted on 04/12/09 - 5:57 AM
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Tig-
I looked at one w/a 50 HP Honda. The owner even stated that it was great for crusing, but not much on top end. I opted to go for the one w/a 70 HP that was at a lower price. Glad I did. The 70 in my opinion is a great match for this boat.
See if the dealer will cut you a deal on the repower. Although the ETEC 60 is nice, I would likely go w/a Yamaha 70 - less expensive and light weight. I was looking at repowering, but the 94 Johnson just runs too good to justify.
Considering where you live, I would look at going with a larger WhaIer and converting my yard to a low maintenance one. Roundup is cheap.
Mike |
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| Tig |
Posted on 04/12/09 - 6:41 AM
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Thanks for the feedback Mike.
The only other Dauntless 15 within a days drive is a 94 with a 70. I emailed and then called this dealer 3 days later to let them know I was interested. They were too busy to talk much or email back. I may drop by and have a look later this week but I doubt I would give him the $2K more for his boat. With his poor sales manner he would have to give me even money and an apology.
50 or 70, either way I will probably save my pennies and repower in 3 to 5 years. One of my pet peeves is lugging fuel cans and new technology will be more efficient. I'll check out the Yamahas.
I am going to expand my driveway this year. I need more parking and less grass. A bigger deck and tennis courts would be nice too.
Steve
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| jimmyb116 |
Posted on 04/12/09 - 8:06 AM
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I admit the 90hp on my 14’ is bit overkill but it only weighs 309 lbs much lighter than a 4 stroke 75hp the boat is rated for. The 2 stroke has much more torque than a 4 stroke and you don’t have to use full power but it’s nice if you need it. I have owned several boats that were marginally powered and it’s a pain in the @#$ slow to get on step and actually uses more fuel as you are always at WOT. And I know everyone wants a 4 stoke but keep in mind they require more maintenance have more parts to break and are more expensive to fix and maintain.
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| Tig |
Posted on 04/12/09 - 11:35 AM
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Thanks for the input Jimmy.
I'm comfortable with the two stroke vs 4 stroke differences. I have rebuilt and repaired engines from boats, motorcycles, cars trucks and even a 3 cyl diesel out of a tractor a couple years ago. So, oil, filter perhaps valve adjustment are no big deal. I can hear when ,those things are going wrong before damage occurs. Compared to the consequences oil oil injection malfunction it's not so bad. Ethanol fuels also make me nervous around two strokes. I think back to friends who overdosed their 90s vintage snowmobiles on gas line antifreeze (methyl hydrate). I'm probably overly nervous about that since I have not seen an engine fail due to pump gas but none the less I'd rather just gas up and go. Leave the oil for the snowmobiles and chainsaw.
I did like the Evinrude inline 70 in it's day. It's at the top HP of the OMC inline 3s. It's also more or less 30 year old technology. Proven but none the less old. Educate me if I am overlooking updates to this engine over the years. That brings me back to repowering. So resale of a 90ish designed Honda 4 stroke vs a 75ish designed 2 stroke. I have not researched that thoroughly but my feeling is that the difference is moot since the Honda powered boat is $2K less. I think I could buy a 1995 70HP for near $2K and sell the Honda to pay for it.
As for new motors, right now I'm not excited about the fit of any of the new 70ish HP motors. The four strokes are beasts and even in two strokes lines I would be tempted by the 90s since most are the same block. There are a few exceptions to this in brands that I am not very familiar with.
In a week or so I will be able to inspect and test the boat. If the 50 is OK for what I want to do I'll sit tight and wait for the DPI 4 strokes to arrive and learn what I can about the other brands of 2 strokes.
In the mean time I ponder that crack on the deck...........
Steve
Edited by Tig on 04/12/09 - 11:37 AM |
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| dauntless-n-miami |
Posted on 04/13/09 - 7:33 AM
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Hey Tig, one thing I did notice is on the sides along the red whaler stripe the absence of the Dauntless 15 emblem. If the hull is a 1996 (like mine, see my personal page) it should have the emblem. Unless the stripe decal has been redone/replaced? You mentioned this boat to me last month, does it come with a trailer? Are there pic's showing details of the transom interior and exterior? The fuel tank set-up definitely needs some looking at. The boat looks to need just some T.LC., assuming all components and hardware are sea worthy. Tig, also check the condition of the rails and deck mounts for impacts and/or loose fasteners. Good luck with the initial visit regarding the Dauntless.
Angel
1996 Dauntless 15, Sportsman Pkg. - 2007 Yamaha 90 HP 2-Stroke |
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| Tig |
Posted on 04/13/09 - 10:08 AM
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Good eye Angel! The Dauntless emblem is missing. This boat is a 95. 94s and 96s I've seen have that emblem.
There is no trailer but I already have one to bring it home. After that it will live in the lift for the summer and back on the trailer for indoor storage.
The fuel tank is a Honda and it is quite weathered so it could be original. I see marks on the floor but nothing that makes me think that a permanent tank was removed. Perhaps the permanent tanks came after March in that model year.
I have been able to magnify the pictures I got from the dealer. Rails and mounting look OK but I will check closely when I get a chance. I did not receive any pictures of the transom area. The boat is in a customer boat house until the ice melts. I asked again for motor and skeg pictures but I am prepared to wait until the dealer gets the boat down the lake to the marina.
Steve
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