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Outrage/Montauk Decision
balene	#1  Posted on 03/03/09 - 2:44 PM
Member Posts: 30 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/19/09	I am about to buy my first Whaler. Thanks to the great content on this site and some knowledgeable friends, I have learned a lot about these boats in a relatively short time and have narrowed my shopping list down to two specific boats. I would really appreciate some feedback from forum members regarding which way to go because I think that I am confronted with a tough decision. First a few words about how the boat will be used. I am looking primarily for a fishing boat suitable for the tidal James River in coastal Virginia. I intend to do a little fishing in the wide part of the river in nice weather, but primarily I will use the boat to fish salt marshes, medium sized saltwater creeks, and very occasionally, in a brackish river about 20 miles upstream from where I live. My wife also wants to joy ride a little and take the boat on ten to twenty mile round trips to dinner and such in nearby towns. With that planned use in mind, I would appreciate this group’s comments on the following two specific boats that I have a chance to buy. Option one is a very well kept 1989 Montauk 17 with a 1999 80 HP Yamaha four stroke engine (350 hours). This boat has a relatively recent chart plotter/depth finder that was about $2,000 when new, some new upholstery, good looking glass (no oxidation; no damage), and nice touches such as a custom aluminum powder coated fuel tank and well kept teak. It has been garage kept in cold weather. Option two is a 1981 Outrage 18 with a 1985 Mercury 150 HP two stroke engine. Overall condition of this boat is about the same, but the teak needs some work and I don’t know as much about the history of the boat. No electronics on this boat that I know of. It has a new EZ load trailer; the Montauk has the original trailer that has been rebuilt and is in good shape. Asking price on the Montauk is $12,500 and I am not sure how much give there is. Asking price on the Outrage is $11,500 and I have reason to believe that there is room in the price. Either boat will work for me. I prefer the Outrage design, but that newer four stroke Yamaha is mighty enticing. I likely will not trailer this boat very much. Your collective wisdom, please. Edited by balene on 03/03/09 - 2:46 PM
Phil T	#2  Posted on 03/03/09 - 2:57 PM
Administrator Personal Page Personal Album Project Albums Posts: 7043 Comments: 6 Joined: 03/26/05	I have owned a Montauk and have been in an Outrage 18. As you know an Outrage has more space, more width to move around and a larger bow area for relaxing. It also has a better ride for the bumps. Keeping in mind fishing and your cruising, I would opt for an Outrage. In terms of your two candidates, the market appears to support 6-8k for Montauk's and 7-9k for an Outrage 18. e.g. Montauk on VA craigslist e.g. (a bit far but a good example) Outrage 18 on MS craigslist Use Jeff's inspection checklist when looking at boats and recommend having the engine checked by a certified mechanic. It is a buyers market and there are many, many candidates. In the end, go with your gut. Edited by Phil T on 03/03/09 - 3:08 PM 1992 Outrage 17 I 2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+ 2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT
balene	#3  Posted on 03/03/09 - 3:08 PM
Member Posts: 30 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/19/09	I am still learning my way around this site. Can someone link me to Jeff's Inspection List?
Phil T	#4  Posted on 03/03/09 - 3:13 PM
Administrator Personal Page Personal Album Project Albums Posts: 7043 Comments: 6 Joined: 03/26/05	Read this page (Whaler shopper network) http://www.whalercentral.com/viewpage...age_id=134 1992 Outrage 17 I 2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+ 2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT
Guts	#5  Posted on 03/03/09 - 5:02 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 612 Comments: 8 Joined: 11/21/08	Wow that is a easy choice between those two Phil T. Looks like a nice Outrage, clean and priced right, newer engine. Now for the question at hand. I have a Montauk but like the looks of the Outrage better. Things like the pool holders in the side gunnels for one, and look of the wood on the gunnels. As Phil T said [("Outrage has more space, more width to move around and a larger bow area for relaxing"] No brainer for me if I was going to buy a BW in this size it would be a Outrage! over a Montauk. Edited by Guts on 03/03/09 - 5:07 PM
balene	#6  Posted on 03/03/09 - 5:36 PM
Member Posts: 30 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/19/09	Guts wrote: Wow that is a easy choice between those two . . . Looks like a nice Outrage, clean and priced right, newer engine. The newer engine is on the Montauk. it is also a four stroke v. a two stroke. That is the heart of my dilema. I like the Outrage better, but don't odten see vintage Whalers with nice four stokes. Also the Montauk has been well kept and nicely upgraded.
Guts	#7  Posted on 03/03/09 - 6:01 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 612 Comments: 8 Joined: 11/21/08	balene I Really Really Really Like Four Strokes as you can see from my personal page. And I like my Montauk, I have a lot of $ in her more than I will ever get back, With that said; It's the looks and the function of the Outrage that I like better. If I had a choice to do over again my choice would be a Outrage with all the trimmings I have on my Montauk. Edited by Guts on 03/03/09 - 6:02 PM
balene	#8  Posted on 03/03/09 - 6:27 PM
Member Posts: 30 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/19/09	Thanks, Guts. Your boat is an inspiration. I agree with you about the Outrage. If I had any guts myself, I would but them both, switch the engines and sell the Montauk!
Phil T	#9  Posted on 03/03/09 - 6:47 PM
Administrator Personal Page Personal Album Project Albums Posts: 7043 Comments: 6 Joined: 03/26/05	Let's take a break on the hull selection discussion for a second and look at the motors. Warning - This is just my opinion While the Montauk has a 4 stroke, it is 10 years old. While not an expert, I am going to say this a carbed 4 stroke, not EFI. While a decent hp, it is not the prevailing 90 hp most Montauk's have. The Mercury 150 is a very reliable motor. Straight forward to maintain. While not as fuel efficient, it is the max horsepower for that hull. If you troll or putter in upriver locations, you can add a 4-stroke kicker. Many do this for efficiency and for redundancy. A good question is the service done on each engine. If one seller has records of everything and changed fluids religiously, that speaks better than a motor with no service history. How long do you "think" you will own the boat? If you plan to hang on to it for a long time >5 years or more you may want/need to re-power. To re-power the costs could be: Montauk - 90 hp engine only 7-9k Outrage - 150 hp engine only 9-12k Add 1k for rigging, prop and gauges, binnacle. I know I am throwing a lot at you but I think looking down the road a bit is important. I realized a year after buying a Montauk, I needed a better ride and a couple other things. I already had done alot of work on the boat. Fortunately, the market was strong and I did okay in the sell/buy. Warning = This is only my opinion. 1992 Outrage 17 I 2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+ 2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT
Barryg	#10  Posted on 03/03/09 - 7:08 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 242 Comments: 1 Joined: 04/01/08	Balene, I think you should get a couple of new boats to look at. The price is high compared to alot of boats that I have been looking at. CL in Charlotte NC has a 18 for 8000. Ebay has a Montauk 91 for 7000 ish. THis is a great market for the buyer and I would look some more. As for your question I do not think you can go wrong with either. THe best deal would make my decision for me. I have a 18 , 15 and I am looking for another Montauk . I will sale one when things turn around but I am going to have fun trying to make up my mind for now . BG
Guts	#11  Posted on 03/03/09 - 7:47 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 612 Comments: 8 Joined: 11/21/08	Phil T I got a chuckle from your [ "Warning = This is only my opinion." ] . I should make that my signature
balene	#12  Posted on 03/03/09 - 7:55 PM
Member Posts: 30 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/19/09	I would appreciate referrals to any similar Montauls and Outrages. The two boats I am looking at are several cuts above the bargain basement boats (there is a local Outrage 19 for 1,400, but. . .). I am aware of one or two in the Carolinas that are $9,000 or so, but not as nice as these boats.
k-bay whaler	#13  Posted on 03/09/09 - 8:41 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 12 Comments: 0 Joined: 10/22/07	I'd really think about what hull you like better. The 4 stroke is definitely better than the 2 stroke, but you can always buy a new motor a few years down the road. You may replace the trailer and motor, but the hull will be the base of the boat for life. I have a 1978 montauk that I love, but for fishing I really like the gunnels on the Outrage for rod holders and extra under gunnel storage for rods, etc.
HarleyFXDL	#14  Posted on 03/10/09 - 7:07 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 917 Comments: 30 Joined: 07/24/07	You're going to find that there are many opinions about motors, 2-stroke vs 4-stroke, Japanese vs American. Many people here have had different experiences with each. Some of the best motors I've owned were the old Johnson/Evinrudes. I've tried the Yamaha's and found that I had problems with the three of the four I've owned (two being 4-strokes) I think if I buy another new engine it will be a Etec. I owned a few old Merc's and had nothing but troubles. I think Merc has come a long way, but the bad taste in my mouth hasn't subsided. Go with what has worked for you in the past.
balene	#15  Posted on 03/10/09 - 9:19 PM
Member Posts: 30 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/19/09	Many thanks for these replies. After a lot of research and looking at probably 30 boats, we decided on the '89 Montauk. I agree with the comments here regarding the importance of the hull as the basis for long term ownership. The Montauk will be fine for our use and the particular hull we found was like new. I have some things to work out with the seller and will not finalize the sale for a few days. When I get the boat looking the way I want, I will post pictures here. Thanks again. Edited by balene on 03/11/09 - 2:54 PM
Demps	#16  Posted on 03/11/09 - 5:34 AM
Member Posts: 13 Comments: 1 Joined: 06/10/05	Balene, I went through the same decision process a few years ago -- and chose to go with the Montauk (mainly for garage storage reasons). I run mine up "Rivah" from you on the tidal James - mostly in search of something to tug on my fishing line...a rare event but enjoyable none the less. I've made long runs on the James and have pushed up into its many creeks. As a relatively new boater, I've even pressed my own envelope a few times and ventured into the Bay during Striped Bass season. I've not once felt dissatisfied with my choice. Welcome. Dave
balene	#17  Posted on 03/11/09 - 2:51 PM
Member Posts: 30 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/19/09	Thanks, Dave. I have found an economical slip with an electric bunked hoist at a marina less than a mile from my house on the Elizabeth River. With that set up I can dry store the boat and from time to time leave it on a mooring off of a family beach on the James. I will primarily fish the boat with an emphasis on salt marshes and old piers along the river near our house. There will also be a striper trip or two on the nicest nights, but nothing too adventurous. There were cheaper Montauks available and Outrages that were attractive, but all of them came with a long list of projects. I have just sold a big sailboat that for the last ten years has consumed a lot of my leisure time with the attention it required. I was sailing less, working on the boat more, and had started to grumble regularly. In the end I bought this boat because it is one that I can use immediately and improve at my own pace mostly during the winters. The fact that it was my wife's first choice sealed the deal. We bought the boat from some superb people who had carefully resotred it. I supose that I paid a little too much, but it is not always about the deal. I also am satisfied that the final negotiated price (lower than listed in the OP) was fair if not great. Who can ever really argue about buying a Montauk? This forum has inspired me to try a restoration, but I don't want a boat like that to be my only one. Maybe I will start with a 13 and work up through the ranks!
balene	#18  Posted on 03/11/09 - 2:53 PM
Member Posts: 30 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/19/09	P. S. I forgot to mention those occasional trips to the Chicahomany for largemouth. Maybe we could meet up!