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Purchasing advice
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| Mark Finkenstaedt |
Posted on 08/25/08 - 6:20 PM
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Hi there, I need a little help without sounding too pathetic. Have patience with me I'm a newbie. Now it seems the Montauk is a diehard standard and many love it but it's up againts the Dauntless which is major bucks...new. I'm looking at a new 2008 Montauk 17' but the external tanks are a bit of an aesthetic turn-off and I can't swing the 19'. It's a beautiful boat but on the surface there seems so little between many of these models. What is the general opinion about these under seat tanks, eye-sore, waste of space, pain-in-the-butt or resale killer? I'm not really getting into this for resale but I don't want to out-grow it too quickly either. As for it's use, I want it as a family do everything water sport and close-in sea-fishing boat. Off the top of my head the '08 Montauk 17' is about $28K including tax etc.
On there other hand I could buy a 2002 18' Dauntless 90HP Opti without a trailer lift kept no bottom paint - $17K. Trailer quoted as $3,200 (dealer). This seems the higher-end boat and less likely to outgrow it. The D might be 21.5K with quoted trailer.
What opinions have you about a trailer purchase. Is this dealer quote just crazy or typical to fit this boat. Can I get a cheaper trailer to fit and how much?
New Montauk or older Dauntless .. cast your vote. Tomorrow I shop again hopefully to see the Dauntless too.
Thanks Mark (Virgin Whaler)
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| moose |
Posted on 08/25/08 - 7:46 PM
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Mark,
I really don't know anything about the boats you are looking at but I went to the Whaler website and all I could find was a 180 Dauntless. The minimum hp on it is 135. That 90 seems VERY small for that boat. To me, the price looks great, but I don't think that's enough engine. Others with similar sizes will chime in.
As for the trailer, it seems too pricey also. Shop around and you might get a much better deal. Again, my boat is a 13' so it's a much smaller ball game all together.
Mike
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| Fishmore |
Posted on 08/26/08 - 12:24 AM
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Mark from what I have read and from how you explain the two boats the Dauntless would be a better boat for you except that this particular boat is underpowered do a search on Google for that boat and see what the owners say about it. Recomendations I have seen for that particular hull say to use 135/150hp.
I would keep looking unless you want to get this particular boat and then do a repower to 150hp. At that point you would be paying about the same price as the new Montauk. But, you would have the hull you seem to like better.
As to the trailer price that depends on what the trailer is made of and what options come with it. I just finished shopping a new trailer. For an Aluminum trailer it is ok for a galvanized it is too high and for a painted steel trailer it is way too high.
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| Phil T |
Posted on 08/26/08 - 6:07 AM
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Mark -
Welcome to Whaler Central. Congratulations on deciding to get a boat. Buying your first boat can be a challenge, it certainly was for me.
The Montauk 170 and the Dauntless are designed for slightly different uses. Both are excellent choices for what you plan to use the boat for. For family boating, the Dauntless is a bit more comfortable.
Note - There appear to have been 3 versions of the Dauntless 180. The first version had a notch in the keel at the back of the boat. The second version (2002?-->2007?) removed the notch. The current version (2008? --> ) is has a slightly redesigned bow and stern.
The Dauntless is wide, a bit heavier, a slightly different hull shape, has a stern bench seat, under-deck fuel tank and costs more than a Montauk 170. It also requires a bigger engine. Most Dauntless's came with 115-135 hp engines with a 135 hp or a 150 hp recommended given it's hull design and loaded weight.
The Montauk is a bit more utilitarian, above deck tanks, no stern seat, lighter and needs less horsepower.
Given this is your first boat, I would (in my personal opinion) pass over on that specific Dauntless since the engine is less than optimal and the price for a trailer appears obscene.
With the time of the year (boat season ending), it is a good time to look at late model Montauk 170's and Dauntless 180's. It is a buyer's market.
A practically '03-'06 new 170 are selling for 18-24K.
For Dauntless's they will need to be a bit older to meet your budget.
I suggest you do some searches on:
BoatTrader.com
YachtWorld.com
Craigslist
Hope this helps.
Edited by Phil T on 08/26/08 - 6:09 AM
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| Mark Finkenstaedt |
Posted on 08/26/08 - 6:21 AM
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I mistakenly mentioned a 90HP on the Dauntless it is in fact a 135 Mercury OptiMax. Hang on I'm reading all your comments. The 90 is of course the only one available on the Montauk. Thanks a lot. I'm loving this site and all the projects and advice.
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| Blue_Northern |
Posted on 08/26/08 - 6:21 AM
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Mark,
Congrats on looking for a new boat. Owning both a older 17 Montauk and a larger outrage I will give you a few of my opinions on some of the issues you have raised.
First - The above the deck fuel tanks of the Montauk are in no way a negative. That is standard for that model and has been that way since the beginning of time for that boat. If a prospective Montauk buyer is looking at your boat they would not even glance twice at the tanks. Having an outrage with the tanks in the floor I am not so certain that I would not prefer to have them up top and easily accessible.
Second - I just finished shopping a new trailer for the Outrage and a Galvanized Tandem loaded was $2600. I am talking from the manufacturer with LED lights, break away tongue, spare with hub, bunks and rollers, torsion axles....the works. Seems your dealer is trying to add his mark up on top of the deal. I did not shop Aluminum but I still think they would come in closer to the same price.
Good luck and keep us posted on your shopping.
Rob
1973 Outrage/Lo-Pro Conversion |
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| Mark Finkenstaedt |
Posted on 08/26/08 - 6:26 AM
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Phil T, Fishmore & Moose. Thanks for the input. As you say it's the end of the season so more might be available soon. So much to learn!
I'll keep you informed.
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| moose |
Posted on 08/26/08 - 6:48 AM
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Mark,
I have a Nissan injected that is the same technology as the Optimax. I love my engine. It performs very well and sips fuel. I think you would be happy with the Optimax.
Mike
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| Mark Finkenstaedt |
Posted on 08/26/08 - 7:10 AM
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Thanks Rob - very helpful words on the engine, trailer and the exterior tanks. I'll go look around for a similar trailer deal. Ask the experienced is the only way to go. The Dauntless owner called and filled in a few details on that boat. Seems like he's moving so the boat must go! - Off to Annapolis to visit them both. Cheers y'all.
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| Phil T |
Posted on 08/26/08 - 8:18 AM
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With the correction on the power for the Dauntless, it might be a good candidate.
I researched a bit more and it appears the "notch" was removed around 2000. A hull with the notch had high bow rise when going up on a plane.
I think a 135 will do fine. Price seems in line with Boattrader listings.
As for a trailer, Kamie and other WC members in your area may be able to guide you on pricing trailers from another source.
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| Troy |
Posted on 08/26/08 - 1:49 PM
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Hi Mark,
I Just purchased a new trailer for my outrage and found quite a differential in dealer pricing for the same trailer. My range went from around $2500 to $3300 at various dealers. I have noticed that trailers tend to be priced a little differently by region of the country. My mother-in-law lives in the south where many trailers seem to be manufactured and pricing for utility trailers seems to be about 30% less down there. I can't speak to boat trailers, but probably the same trends apply. Good luck on the potential new purchase!
Troy
1985 Outrage 18 |
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| Binkie |
Posted on 08/26/08 - 5:43 PM
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If your motor is the size that you can get buy on a couple of portable six gallon gas tanks, then that is what I would do. I don`t think they are an eyesore, as Montauks always had them. The main advantage is that being that they are above deck, they don`t suffer from the condensation problem that below deck tanks do, so there is a less of a chance that you fuel tank will contain water.
rich
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| Barryg |
Posted on 08/26/08 - 6:43 PM
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I found a trailer for my 18 outrage in Willmington NC for 1800.00. Most everyone wanted about 2300.00 and then I found this one on vacation. It was a aluminum single axle (easy loader). The place was a hole in the wall place . I guess low overhead. Hey Troy why did you want to get a new trailer? I saw your Whaler on ebay but could not get any replies from the owner. Looked like a buy. BG
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| Mark Finkenstaedt |
Posted on 08/27/08 - 7:21 AM
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Hey all,
I took the Dauntless 18' out after the wife nixed the Montauck 17' as not having enough rear seating. The Dauntless did not disappoint with seating for a whole cheerleading squad (I wish) along the rear bench and tons of storage. The engine did a great job standing the boat on it's tail and making tracks. That'll do nicely! At $17K plus trailer (TBD) still leaves room for add-ons in the budget. Included are the Bimi, seat cover, console cover, cooler seat, full boat cover, bow cushion and a few things I can't recall.
Today I'll hunt the trailer.
Can most of these trailer shops fit it without the boat with some sort of spec sheet they might have for boats or will they sell me the trailer for say $2K and then if I were to have them fit it at the boat ramp charge an additional $500+. Is fitting beyond a normal "handy" human or only for specialists?
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| Mark Finkenstaedt |
Posted on 08/27/08 - 7:23 AM
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Rear Seating and the engine full open - iPhone image
Mark Finkenstaedt attached the following image:
[29.93Kb]
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| Blue_Northern |
Posted on 08/27/08 - 7:34 AM
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Congrats on the purchase. Looks like it was a nice day out on the water -- GLASS!
Rob
1973 Outrage/Lo-Pro Conversion |
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| Mark Finkenstaedt |
Posted on 08/27/08 - 7:37 AM
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Anyone know where I can find a quick sales agreement for when I hand over the rest of the money.
You agree to cease all unsociable behaviour due to sellers remorse and do therefore agree that's it's Mine - all - mine!!!
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| Blue_Northern |
Posted on 08/27/08 - 8:11 AM
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I have simple Bill of Sale I used on my outrage. Give me your email and I will send it over for you to look at -- it can be edited to your needs. Better yet just shoot me an email at robert@agentacom.com and I will reply with the attachment.
Edited by Blue_Northern on 08/27/08 - 8:12 AM
Rob
1973 Outrage/Lo-Pro Conversion |
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| Phil T |
Posted on 08/27/08 - 8:16 AM
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I found this after a quick google search. You can cut and paste the parts you need.
There are two two trailer types, keel rollers with bunks or just bunks. My preference (trailer 100%) is 2 keel rollers on each cross member (total of 4 rollers) and two long bunks.
As for fitting, it will be hard to do a fitting at the shop. There is no spec, per se.
We can guide you on the proper setup assuming you have some basic tools and gear. Expect it to take a few hours at a boat ramp.
Another alternative is to buy the trailer and go to a local boat yard who can lift the boat out and setup the trailer.
Congrats. I would die for a day that calm.
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| Blue_Northern |
Posted on 08/27/08 - 8:24 AM
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I went ahead and threw this out to my server. You can access bill of sale word document by clicking HERE.
Edited by Blue_Northern on 08/27/08 - 8:27 AM
Rob
1973 Outrage/Lo-Pro Conversion |
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