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Quick check for wood finishing techniques
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| Grady95 |
Posted on 02/18/08 - 1:39 PM
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Hey All,
The teak is ready for oiling on the RPS. I have some Minwax Tung Oil. I know there is a finishing oil called Teak Oil. Am I going to be OK with the Tung Oil?
Grady
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| danedg |
Posted on 02/18/08 - 6:31 PM
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I know you're not going to want to hear this....
6 -10 coats spar varnish....it builds a UV protective barrier...
You can't build coats of the oils....
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| jaccoserv |
Posted on 02/18/08 - 6:44 PM
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The short answer, without going into a varnish/poly vs. oil debate, or my personaly preferance, no, do not use tung oil. Use a high quality teak oil.(ie Interlux)
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| dtmackey |
Posted on 02/19/08 - 3:23 AM
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2 coats of West epoxy followed by several coats of Spar varnish and you will have a perfect finish that stands up far better than varnish alone.
D-
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| makanihula |
Posted on 02/19/08 - 7:02 AM
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The sun will destroy tung oil very quickly (or anything from Minwax for that matter, including the horrible Helmsman outdoor stuff). Pay $30 for a quart of true marine poly/varnish and you won't have to refinish for many years. I'm a Sikkens Cetol Marine Gloss man. It's got a beautiful amber hue, easy to apply, and protects wood from UV like nuthin else. It 'encapsulates' the wood in a tough poly coating and has that wet glossy look.
Edited by makanihula on 02/19/08 - 12:32 PM |
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| jvz |
Posted on 02/19/08 - 8:18 AM
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I agree w/ all the varnish recomendations,.. last fall i restored every bit of wood on my 86' Outrage.
Started w/ 60 grit all the way to 420 .. like glass. I have used the boat non stop until Dec. and the finish is still gorgeous. I have always been a spar varnish guy , (captains,Z-Spar,Behr etc..)this time i tried the Sikkens cetol marine .. amazing and flows beautifuly.
Another method is 6-8 coate of varnish and then two coats of clear Sterling linear -polyurathene and common sense for wear and tear and a cover when not in use ... you are safe for years and years.... unless you just love to do bright work ... enjoy and good luck !
JVZ
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 02/19/08 - 8:53 AM
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I use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil and have used it for twenty years on five different Whalers as well as countless construction projects and furniture.
There are other good teak oils out there.
If you want to varnish that is fine; it is a different look. Both varnish and oil techniques have their advantages and disadvantages. One is not better than the other.
I am not a fan of the Cetol finish even though Sikkens makes some outstanding products. I think it looks terrible and god help you when you need to refinish it.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 02/19/08 - 8:55 AM
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To answer the original question, MinWax Tung Oil would work just fine on the teak if that is what you have. You can always go over it later with something else if you like.
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| MW |
Posted on 02/19/08 - 9:07 AM
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I think after all of your hard work, you should use something other than "Minwax", use a "high quality finish", on "high quality work" !
mw
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| Grady95 |
Posted on 02/19/08 - 4:11 PM
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OK,
So far, I have found the receipt for the Minwax Tung Oil from Home Depot. I can get my $15 back on that, so no loss there.
Would a hybrid approach be possible? What I mean is can I first apply an oil to accentuate the grain of that lovely wood, and then follow that with a poly glaze coat(s) to add durability and resistance? I realize that it sounds like I am trying to serve two masters and I am willing to select one approach over the other if necessary. Like everyone, I find the look of the wood pleasing. My boating is nearly exclusively fishing. A sturdy cover on the wood intuitively sounds better suited to the day to day use of the boat.
Oil makes for great grain, poly or varnish makes wood tough and durable. The best of both worlds if they are compatible.
Thanks again to everyone for your input. I value this more than you know. The wood will be finished this weekend. If you would like to contribute any final thought, please chime in. I pull the trigger Saturday AM.
Thanks All,
Grady
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| danedg |
Posted on 02/19/08 - 4:42 PM
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You have nothing to fear...but UV itself!
Wind, water and miles take their toll...but the sun's gonna kill ya!
Consider a good varnish base...
Do you want her pretty now...and later?...
They're pretty PHAT after 40......
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| jvz |
Posted on 02/19/08 - 5:07 PM
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Gee Tom, Thanks...! The "Sikkens Cetol Natural Teak" (new product last year) came out incredible .... don't knock it 'till you try it !!
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| scrimshaw |
Posted on 02/19/08 - 5:30 PM
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My basement is currently filled with wood in various stages of Sikkens application,I like what I see.
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| ioptfm |
Posted on 02/19/08 - 6:15 PM
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Regardles of which direction you go in, use a lot of patience, and lots of sanding and don't forget, NEVER use Steel wool on it period!
Tom
1979 Sport 15' |
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| makanihula |
Posted on 02/19/08 - 6:23 PM
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It's not as if a good marine poly will hide the wood color---it will in fact enhance it and keep it bright and lustrous for along time. The only 'downside' is that you don't see the grain contours, if that's even a downside. Even without dilution, the first coat is absorbed to an extent by the wood (like an oil). Additional coats and sanding produces a uniform flat surface, but still highly clear. Some have slight amber tinting, some are absolutely clear.
Edited by makanihula on 02/19/08 - 6:24 PM |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 02/20/08 - 7:23 AM
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jvz,
You are right, I am not familiar with the new Sikkens Cetol Natural Teak. What I have seen far too much of is the standard Cetol Marine, which gives beautiful teak and unnatural coated-with-orange-plastic look that does not appeal to me.
Cetol Natural Teak is a new color of Cetol; it still a pigmented product. I hope it is an attractive pigment.
One thing to watch out for with either varnish or Cetol, its that because it is a finish that sits on the surface, it can (and will) peel of, flake or blister off if not maintained. Once this happens and bar wood is exposed, it cannot be effectively touched up. You strip the wood and start over.
With an oil finish, the finish fades with time, sometimes not very much time, but it is a much more forgiving finish that you can always apply another coat over. The choice of finish is purely subjective. Choose what you want, but in my opinion, varnished teak woodwork is best for the Whaler owner who is extremely careful with how he uses his boat and stores it, never leaving it exposed to the elements except when in use. (This is how I keep my boats.) An oil rubbed finish is better for folks who really use their boats and not as fussy.
I like the oil finish because of how it looks, mostly abut also because of the ease of application.
It should also be noted that the best prep for varnish is a seal coat with teak oil that is applies with some wet sanding of the wood. This will seal the grain, fill the pores and leave an excellent foundation for varnish to grip. Penetrating epoxy is also used by those who really know what they are doing and can form a tough base for varnish.
Also watch out for the thickness of a varnish finish. For some Whaler parts it is no big deal, but others, like the teak seat back on the classic RPS will have to have the thickness the varnish accounted for. The pivot blocks will not fit on the pivot frames if the holes are filled with too much varnish and the seat back itself can be a tight fit between the pivot blocks.
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| Jeff |
Posted on 02/20/08 - 8:10 AM
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My process of teak oiling is Detailed here in this thread with images of the finished product.
I know duf has followed this same process and has been VERY happy with how is wood turned out.
I do 12 - 14 coats of high quality furniture oil which leaves the wood with a semi gloss varnished / urethane look that lasts a season or more. The real key to this process is using a quality oil that is meant to coat and harden not turn to a tacking goo like mess with multiple coatings. Funny thing is the oils I use and I recommend, belhem or watco, cost the same or less than a quart of an inferior Starbrite, Boat US, Amazon, or minwax oil.
Edited by Jeff on 02/20/08 - 8:30 AM
1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive |
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| MW |
Posted on 02/20/08 - 9:57 AM
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I just strip the poly with "Zip Strip", and sand down as much as I can, I sand the corners "Round", then stain the wood, then "poly". The "poly" wears out on the corners first so I round off as much as I can so it sticks better, it also gives a new piece of wood that softer "used look" if you are adding a new piece. I use "Zar" stain & Poly, I usually do about 6-7 coats, This get's me about 5 seasons (with some touch up of course). The boat is docked all summer uncovered, just auto wax added about every two weeks, and it takes a pretty good beating, then covered for the winter. The whole thing gets re-done aprox. every few seasons, as stated above, It's the "SUN" (u.v.) that beats it up. I just make it pretty for a little while but, It is a "Whaler', and it get's used like one (fishing, beaching the boat, swimming etc.).
mw
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| Grady95 |
Posted on 02/20/08 - 5:35 PM
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danedg wrote:
I know you're not going to want to hear this....
6 -10 coats spar varnish....it builds a UV protective barrier...
You can't build coats of the oils....
Hey,
This little thread has generated far more interest than I ever expected. I feel very fortunate to hear from so many people. While these responses continue to come in, please let me respond to yours in particular. I don't know for sure yet what I will coat with. I'll decide on Friday but no matter what I decide, please know that I DO want to hear your views and I do value them.
Thank You very much. I sincerely appreciate your advice and expertise.
Grady
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| jvz |
Posted on 02/20/08 - 9:07 PM
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For 23 years i have used varnish on the yachts i have run (the owners would have nothing less) to the boats i have owned .. That Classic Yacht look !! Classic Whalers deserve it as well .. it is the love for the boat and enjoying the end result ,.. a fine looking boat and a owner that puts in the effort ... good for the soul ! Gives me great pleasure to see the labor of love put forth by everyone on this site.
Some of you may have heard of this technique... i learned this from a old salty dog in the Caribbean, for a sealer coat he would thin spar varnish about 60% and warm up the can in a pot of hot water for the first sealer coat, 2nd coat, 30% .... full strength for the next 8 coats.. of course a light scuff w/ 220/320 in between coats. Vinegar 40% and water 60 % and a cotton (diaper)cloth will clean
your varnish when detailing ,, don't worry, your boat will not reek like vinegar.
On that note ... have fun and post the pics of the final results, whatever they may be 
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