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Repower confusion?
Fishmore	#1  Posted on 12/30/07 - 10:02 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 270 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/20/07	I have a new to me, 73 - 17 Currituck soon to be converted to Nauset type. It has a two stroke 40hp motor on it now which runs great but I will sell. The boat will be used mostly for fishing with a lot of slow trolling for trout/kokanee Salmon. A couple times per year in to the San Francisco Bay and ocean weather permitting. Also wakeboarding/skiing at Tahoe for one week out of the year. Possible other weekends of wakeboarding/skiing. Load will usually be me 300lbs, and two sons 50lbs and 75lbs. Occasionally another 75lb kid. The kids will be doing the wakeboarding / skiing. I did a bunch of research on older engines and most engines that were around when this hull was built were under 275 hence I am sticking with the lighter weight motors. I do have a Honda 5hp kicker to mount if I want to but I am trying to save weight and not use it. After several weeks of internal discussion I would like to know others opinions. Engine Models I am considering... ETEC 60 -240lbs seen this for 7000.00 at dealer Mercury 60 - 248lbs have seen for 5500.00 at dealer Yamaha 60 - 237lbs have not seen this yet Bearcat 55 - 227lbs definitly a good price break and I live in CA. Also most of these engines have a high thrust option. Should I consider the high thrust model instead? Any thoughts pros/cons or am I dreaming and these motors will not fit the bill?
CES	#2  Posted on 12/31/07 - 5:58 AM
Member Personal Page Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 2681 Comments: 7 Joined: 04/27/07	If it was me and I was living in California, I would stick the Evinrude E-TEC on the back of my boat. The engine is EPA compliant and that will allow you to use the lakes that are more pollution conscious like Lake Tahoe etc. Sadly, the days of the smoke spewing 2 strokes are rapidly coming to an end. Just my 2 cents. Cliff Cliff 1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker
joninnj	#3  Posted on 12/31/07 - 1:50 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 408 Comments: 3 Joined: 06/07/07	Hi Fishmore, The regs in Ca as well as a few other states are getting very tough. I would stick with a 2 stoke DFI or 4 stroke even if a bit heaver. The 17 would be OK with something at about 350 lbs. The Bearcat (although very cool there is also dealer who refurbs these in Ca) may not meet EPA standards. This a carbed engine not Fuel injected. I have 90 Yamie at 270 LBS, very light 90HP, I would be comfortable adding another 80 LBS back there when I re-power. Also with a 60HP and a load you will be struggling to pull skiers... unless you go with a small prop and then you will need to watch RPMs... I would go for nothing smaller that a 75. Happy New year to all Edited by joninnj on 12/31/07 - 1:57 PM Jon in NJ Many other boats and outboards in my boating history The Whaler is the one I like the best!!!
Joe Kriz	#4  Posted on 12/31/07 - 2:06 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	I'd put a 90 hp on it if you like water sports. Have you looked at this Quick Engine Guide? http://www.whalercentral.com/readarti...ticle_id=5
GTL	#5  Posted on 12/31/07 - 2:31 PM
Member Posts: 25 Comments: 1 Joined: 07/09/06	Well have to put my comments on this also. I agree with Joe, 90 hp. Back in 1973 I moved up to a 17 bare hull, because when I water skied behind my 13' Whaler with 45 HP, I would almost stall the motor when I made my cuts. On the 17', I installed a 115 HP ... but that was back in 73 when the HP was rated at the power head. ...That solved the stalling problem. Here it is 34 years later, I'm still running the same hull, but now I have a 112 Johnson (1994)on a jack plate ... A little to much power for young kids or teenagers to run. I would look at a 4 stroke ... but that's my opinion. I don't live in California ... and I love my two stroke motor, but don't have to deal with the EPA right now (I'm sure it's coming), that's why I'd look at a 4 stroke ... but 90 HP is perfect for a 1973 hull
Phil T	#6  Posted on 12/31/07 - 2:52 PM
Administrator Personal Page Personal Album Project Albums Posts: 7043 Comments: 6 Joined: 03/26/05	An E-TEC would be my choice. 1992 Outrage 17 I 2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+ 2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT
Fishmore	#7  Posted on 12/31/07 - 5:18 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 270 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/20/07	Thanks guys. I did look at the motorguide and I also spent the past month looking at various threads on the subject of repowering the older 17s. My first fear is weight, if I go with a 90hp it weighs 350lbs and it will probably not troll slow enough for trout and kokanee (1 -2mph) so I will need to install the kicker so now I have over 400lbs on the transom. I felt with the 60hp at 240lbs I may not need the kicker and if I do I am still at only 300lbs. After checking motor weights of older 90hp and 115hp motors I found that most were at 265lbs or less. My second fear is slow speeds 90% of my usage will be slow trolling (1-2mph) so I am also concerned that the ETEC may not like running at idle for long periods of time. Has anyone tried this with an ETEC? My last fear is that I get a motor with good weight and the ability to slow troll but, if I take the kids out for some watersports a couple times a year I will not be able to pop them up without dragging them through the water too much. I do not care about top end as I will be happy cruising at 20-25mph. If I did not want to fish Tahoe and the Sierra lakes then I would buy an older (250l two stroke 90 and run the 5hp kicker when trolling but that will not work for me. Maybe I am just asking too much from the motors we have available? Regards Tim C.
cyclops	#8  Posted on 12/31/07 - 7:35 PM
Member Posts: 26 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/11/06	I'm agree with Joe also, 90hp. I have a 90 e-tec on a 67 Eastport with a CMC manual setback bracket. The hull handles the weight fine. I haven't trolled with it yet but other people on here have with good reports. A friend of mine has a 90 optimax on his montauk and I think that is a sweet set up also. I went with the e-tec because I have a good dealer close by. Man you guys in California sure have to pay for your outboards. That price you show for the 60hp e-tec is very close to what I paid for my 90hp last September.
joninnj	#9  Posted on 01/01/08 - 6:01 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 408 Comments: 3 Joined: 06/07/07	Guys, I can troll for hours at 600 RPM just about slow enough to fish, perfect open water (with an occasional quick burst here and there). I also use a 50LBS electric mounted on the transom to move about near docks and shore line. I would be very surprised if the Etec can not idle as well or better than the older technology. As far as re-powering, if I do so I will seriously consider a 115 if I could sort through the insurance details. Certain models today are basically the same weight 75, 90, 115.... Unfortunately none of the mfgs make a 100HP any more.... Happy New Year! Edited by joninnj on 01/01/08 - 6:30 AM Jon in NJ Many other boats and outboards in my boating history The Whaler is the one I like the best!!!
Fishmore	#10  Posted on 01/02/08 - 8:17 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 270 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/20/07	Okay then it sounds like an etec 90 is in my future. The boat shows start next week so I guess I will be shopping for my best price.
lakeboyrtk	#11  Posted on 01/02/08 - 10:56 AM
Member Posts: 3 Comments: 0 Joined: 09/17/06	If the engine you choose does not troll slow enough, check out trolling plates. I have no first hand experience with them, but they look like they would work. Here is an example: http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0029930...515a.shtml. I also think overtons, west marine, etc carries them. Good luck.
Bob Younger	#12  Posted on 01/02/08 - 1:15 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 136 Comments: 2 Joined: 06/22/07	I recently repowered with a 2006 75 HP Evinrude E-TEC (also known as a 'detuned' 90) with 17 pitch prop (350 lbs in all). I couldn't be happier. For trolling I use a 55 lb thrust Minn-Kota which moves my 1963 Eastport (16' 7" hull) at a nice trolling speed. I have two dual purpose batteries mounted under the console which works great.
Joe Kriz	#13  Posted on 01/02/08 - 2:44 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Bob Younger, Just out of curiosity, why did you choose the 75 hp over the 90 hp when they both weigh the same? Price? Availability? Other?
kamie	#14  Posted on 01/02/08 - 4:20 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	I can troll with my 175HP E-Tec at 500 RPM all day and have done so doing safety work for open water swims. I would guess that the swimmers were doing between 1.5 to 2.5 mph and I pretty much stayed with them. The engine did fine, no smoke, no fuss. If a 175HP can do it, I don't see why a 90 can't.
Bob Younger	#15  Posted on 01/02/08 - 4:26 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 136 Comments: 2 Joined: 06/22/07	Considerations for 75 HP vs 90 HP 1. Availability, a local dealer had a new 2006 75 HP for $7,000 which was just too good to pass up. We've never had it WOT and can easily do 38 MPH (GPS) and the 1963 Eastport is heavy with all the Mahogany plus me, my wife and enough gear to sustain life for at least two months. It works as advertized. First crank and it's going (even on cold mornings). So quiet it is almost spooky. No mixing of oil (it has an oil reservoir under the cowling) and because of the injection I bet the oil/gas ratio is at least 100:1 if not better. A real miser on gas (especially after using a 1961 75 HP Evinrude for years). At this point I'd say a 90 would just be overkill for the hull we have.
Fishmore	#16  Posted on 01/03/08 - 8:26 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 270 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/20/07	I did a little more research and went to the EPA site to see what other two strokes were available. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/certdata.htmrtdata.htm and I got the list of available motors from there. A little hard to decipher but kind of interesting as it lists HP and power ratings, sprkplugs used etc... on both 2 and 4 stroke engines. I found that Tohatsu/Nissan makes a DFI 2-stroke CARB 2/EPA 2006 90hp that weighs slightly less than the ETEC (which is CARB 3 rated) and is less costly. CA allows CARB 2 rated motors in all lakes so I thought I would check it out. I also found a neat article called 90HP shootout at http://www.bwbmag.com/output.cfm?id=9...?id=943183 that had an interesting test scenario with Evinrude, Tohatsu, Suzuki and Mercury that is worth reading. I also found that I have three ETEC and three Tohatsu dealers within 25 miles of my home so I will be doing some shopping. Edited by Fishmore on 01/03/08 - 8:35 PM
Buckda	#17  Posted on 01/04/08 - 8:46 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 325 Comments: 2 Joined: 01/15/07	I think you will find that the 90 HP E-TEC trolls nicely and will happily idle for many hours while sipping fuel through a very thin straw. Propeller selection is important – given your location, top speed won’t likely be a priority. A good holeshot (lower pitch prop) to get your kids up on skis is important, and the less aggressive prop will also help keep your trolling speed low. A lot of time at idle will also require you to increase the maintenance of the spark plugs, since each plug will be firing multiple times per revolution. Two additional things are needed in your case: a good spark plug gap tool (available for about a dollar at most automotive supply stores) and a flexible jointed socket wrench to pull the bottom plug. The rest is easy. The engine should use very little oil at those speeds (assuming you program for XD-100). At heavily loaded and cruise speeds, I can go several hundred miles without the need to add oil on my E-TEC motors. I logged over 1,300 miles on the GPS last year, and burned about a gallon and a half of oil between TWO 90 HP E-TEC engines. I recommend you shop carefully – the 90 HP E-TEC can be bought for competitive prices. The best way to find the best price is to wave cash under the dealer’s nose. Ask for a manager’s discount. $7,200-$7,500 for the engine is about right, plus controls, propeller and installation. Negotiate the price of the motor separate from installation. Installation should take only a few hours of time. In January and February (in the north), your dealer may have discounted labor rates to keep his mechanics busy. In Michigan, my previous mechanic before I bought the E-TEC had 15 percent discounted rates in Jan and Feb. Buy the prop, oil and controls from the same dealer. He makes a bigger margin on these items and they are not super expensive. Remember, you will need him eventually – drive a fair bargain, but don’t screw him…otherwise he may return the favor down the road. Remember: a good dealer is worth more in the long run than a slightly better product. I’m not picking on any particular brand as being better than another. What I am saying is that I’d rather have a Toyota with a great dealer than a Lexus with a crappy dealer. I’ve found a great dealer who is SIX HOURS from my home and FOUR hours from where I keep my boat. He has my business because he is a good dealer. I’d rather drive all the way there, stay overnight with friends and return home the next day for the experience of working with a great dealer. In many ways your dealer is more important than what brand or technology of engine you buy. Good luck!