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older Outrage with Verado
Janflens	#1  Posted on 11/12/07 - 12:57 PM
Member Posts: 5 Comments: 2 Joined: 09/09/07	I am restoring a 86 Outrage 25 and will need new engine(s) and am considering 275 Verado. Was told that it may be not the right engine for the boat as regards weight and transom rigidity. Anyone with experience or expert knowledge on this issue? Thanks Jan Edited by Jeff on 11/13/07 - 7:40 AM
MWH	#2  Posted on 11/12/07 - 1:35 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 233 Comments: 2 Joined: 09/30/06	That Verado 275 will weigh around 649lbs. Your transom is rated for a maximum 300hp or twin 150's which will weigh 431lbs each, total weight 862lbs. The Verado will be approximately 200 lbs lighter. The Verado could be a very nice motor on your 25 but I suggest you look at all the new motors. You may even want to get your transom surveyed to determine if there are any weak areas... The Verado is supercharged and will require premium fuel to achieve the max horsepower rating. Not sure how reliable a supercharger is on a marine engine? It has electronic controls, very nice. The Suzuki 300 does not require premium fuel to achieve its max horsepower rating and has a timing chain versus timing belt. Its 604lbs, 4.0 liters, and also has electronic controls. The Evinrude E-tec 250 (2-stroke) is the lightest, 524lbs, fuel efficient, and has service intervals at 300 hours. Also a notable warranty. Plenty of torque with a 2-stroke. The Yamahas are also nice. The V8 350 is over 800lbs and require a reinforced transom, so I was told by the dealer. Boats being fitted with the 350 are set up at the factory and manufacturers are strengthening the transoms etc to account for the added weight and stress. The Yamaha 250 weighs 604lbs and is 3.3 liters. It has a timing belt versus chain. My buddy has the 225 on his 25 Parker. Its a very nice motor and powerful too. It does require plenty of service though. Hope this helps in your choice. Keep us posted. -Mike. Edited by MWH on 11/12/07 - 1:37 PM
Janflens	#3  Posted on 11/12/07 - 2:00 PM
Member Posts: 5 Comments: 2 Joined: 09/09/07	Thanks Mike, I see your point where it comes to premium fuel. Sometimes it is hard to "shop for fuel" over here. I have a 225 Yamaha on my 22 OR and I find it a little noisy to be honest. No experience with Suzuki but they say its is cheap to buy and fit. What about Optimax? Any thoughts on that one? Just read a thread on CW and there are many many thougths on the subject. thanks for your input.
Janflens	#4  Posted on 11/12/07 - 2:02 PM
Member Posts: 5 Comments: 2 Joined: 09/09/07	Do the E-Tecs have a good reputation as far as you know?
Doug V	#5  Posted on 11/12/07 - 5:24 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 340 Comments: 3 Joined: 09/21/05	As a point of reference, by brother in law has an Outrage 25 with a single 1991 (I think that is the year, might be '92) carbed, Cosworth block 275 Merc. It performs well. I think it could use a different prop set up to be totally dialed in(maybe an inch lower pitch), but it works good enough for him. Doug
MWH	#6  Posted on 11/12/07 - 5:50 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 233 Comments: 2 Joined: 09/30/06	Jan, Do you have the 4-stroke 225 Yamaha? I found my buddies 4-stroke Yamaha to be very quiet....I've talked with several of the Marine Police (DNR) in my area and their Whalers are rigged with E-tecs. So far so good, they like them. One Officer said he put over 400 hours on his and no problems, the motor was as good as advertised. I think the Optimax motors are fine. Maybe msl will chime in he has a pair (150's) on his 25 Outrage. The boat is propped for speed and will do 50mph. Hey Doug, There is a mechanic in my area who is selling a Merc 250 with a cosworth block, very impressive looking. The prop had something like 5 blades? He said it was worth $1000? The motor was rebuilt from top to bottom.
Phil T	#7  Posted on 11/12/07 - 7:54 PM
Administrator Personal Page Personal Album Project Albums Posts: 7043 Comments: 6 Joined: 03/26/05	All - Just to clarify the record. I recall reading that the Verado's have changed this year, some refer to these as "Gen 2" versions. They do not require the premium fuel to run. I would consult Mercury Marine's website to ensure the truthfulness of my statement. Personally, for the price, weight, reliability I would go with ETEC. This is coming from someone who has owned 2 Yamaha's. I also think the money they charge for rigging (power steering and the other bells and whistles) is excessive. Edited by Phil T on 11/12/07 - 7:55 PM 1992 Outrage 17 I 2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+ 2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT
MWH	#8  Posted on 11/12/07 - 8:29 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 233 Comments: 2 Joined: 09/30/06	Here is the link to the Mercury Verado website, 92 Octane recommended for maximum performance. http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/..._specs.php Edited by MWH on 11/12/07 - 8:31 PM
msl	#9  Posted on 11/13/07 - 5:04 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 42 Comments: 0 Joined: 10/06/05	Another area you will have to be concerned with is your shaft lenght, as I think the 25 was originally set up for a 20" shafts. So if you have a notched transon you will need jackplates to raise your engines up for proper set up with a 25" shaft. I do have the twin 150 opti max's, they are great on fuel and have been very reliable. When I purchased my boat two years ago plus the motors only had 180 hours, now we are getting ready to make 1000 hours point (last year I was sitting around 850 hours). The main thing is regular maintence, they run strong all the time. When I have to repower, I think the single 300 is the way to go. As twins will cost a arm & a leg. Although it will be with an American made outboard (Union Man, buy American). If I were to go with twins, I would consider twin 175 or 200 Opti Max's, as four strokes will be too heavy unless you add floatation braket. The boat will otherwise run bow high and will more than likely be a slug out of the hole. The only option for four strokes would be a pair 140 hp or less & a single big four. The advantage to four stoke is no adding oil and sound levels, where as two stokes you will need to add oil and deal with the sounds of true horse power. Keep us updated on what you end up with, as I would like to know your perfomance number with any of the options you choose. Good Luck, this is a major decision.
Jeff	#10  Posted on 11/13/07 - 7:45 AM
Member Posts: 1987 Comments: 34 Joined: 04/02/05	Jan, I have been so impressed with the E-Tecs I have seen on the water it would be my only choice for a repower. They are as quite as a 4 stroke, weigh less, use about the same fuel, and have a lot more low end torque vs a 4 stroke which means a quicker planing time. With the new 300 E-Tec coming out it would be a prefect fit for a classic 25. Or if you are going with twin the 150's would be a good choice but for the same weight you could go with the 200's. 1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive
Doug V	#11  Posted on 11/13/07 - 11:16 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 340 Comments: 3 Joined: 09/21/05	Mike, In response your quote: Hey Doug, There is a mechanic in my area who is selling a Merc 250 with a cosworth block, very impressive looking. The prop had something like 5 blades? He said it was worth $1000? The motor was rebuilt from top to bottom. I understand that the Cosworth engines were popular with the go fast crowd years ago, however, the longevity of the engines when used that way was not great. I also heard that where the Cosworth block really shined was in work boat type situations, as they have gobs of torque. It seems like a completely rebuilt engine would be a steal at $1000- if everything was on the level. Matt's 275 block is in really nice shape. However he is having old engine issues, like electronic parts , hoses, etc that he has to stay on top of. Doug
Janflens	#12  Posted on 11/13/07 - 2:37 PM
Member Posts: 5 Comments: 2 Joined: 09/09/07	Thanks alot guys, I am more and more moving away from my original thought of getting Verado installed. Will keep you posted on what I end up with. thanks again.
MWH	#13  Posted on 11/13/07 - 5:41 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 233 Comments: 2 Joined: 09/30/06	Doug, Oops, the motor was $6,000 the prop alone was estimated at $1000. Didn't see any corrosion. I also heard those Cosworth blocks were top notch.
ioptfm	#14  Posted on 11/13/07 - 6:33 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1533 Comments: 3 Joined: 10/28/06	I have an ETEC on my little Whaler and couldn't be happier with every feature it has from maintenance to fuel consuption. talk to arthureld and kamie on this site and see what they think of theirs. They have the larger motors and I think are pleased with them. Tom 1979 Sport 15'
msl	#15  Posted on 11/14/07 - 5:55 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 42 Comments: 0 Joined: 10/06/05	Mike, My dad was looking at that outboard, but for that price you are half way to a new one, plus those are thirsty outboards. I have seen the motor you are talking about, nice buy if you are all about speed but I don't think the prop would be suitable for a whaler. Someone needs to put this on a 20' outrage, should weigh under 400lbs and be able to fly if you add wings!!!
MWH	#16  Posted on 11/14/07 - 7:17 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 233 Comments: 2 Joined: 09/30/06	msl, I wouldn't even cnsider that motor unless it was priced significantly lower. Don't know how the prop would work on a Whaler just thought it looked pretty cool.
Bob Kemmler JR	#17  Posted on 11/14/07 - 4:31 PM
Member Project Albums Posts: 269 Comments: 7 Joined: 10/10/05	I'll be surprised if the 300 Etec makes a true 300 prop rated hp on 87 octane fuel, only time will tell though. The 300 Opti XS makes 330 hp which has been proven on independent dynos and weighs less than the soon (hopefully) to be available 300 Etec. The Verado 300 will make approx 270-280 hp on 87 octane gas and running premium makes 315+ hp. On the hunt for a classic 19 or 21 Whaler
glen e	#18  Posted on 11/16/07 - 2:19 PM
Member Posts: 24 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/28/07	verado 300's are getting the same peformance from 87 octane and 93 octane - several of us have proven that... http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/gersly123/octane.jpg Edited by glen e on 11/16/07 - 2:20 PM
Phil T	#19  Posted on 11/16/07 - 4:12 PM
Administrator Personal Page Personal Album Project Albums Posts: 7043 Comments: 6 Joined: 03/26/05	Glen - I was starting to think I was mistaken on the octane rating for the Gen 2 Verado's. Thanks for adding to the record. 1992 Outrage 17 I 2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+ 2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT
catalpa	#20  Posted on 12/04/07 - 4:05 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/11/07	Hi There, I have a 1997 outrage 240 and I took off the twin 150 yamahas and repowered with a Suzuki 300, It is the best motor I could recommend. I looked at all the large motors and decided on Suzuki for a few reasons. All out boards are in and around the same price here in Ireland so cost was not a factor. But gas is very expensive here about $6 a gallon. The Suzuki uses HALF the fuel of other motors in the same category. They are ultra reliable and really quiet I have to check the rev counter when its Idling to check its on. Let me know if you have any questions Good luck Catalpa.