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90 hp losing cylinder
finfish04	#1  Posted on 10/22/07 - 4:51 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 36 Comments: 0 Joined: 12/25/05	Hi, I have a 1982 90 hp Johnson 4 cylinder outboard.The motor runs great then loses a cylinder. I isolated the cylinder and replaced the coil then the powerpack to the effected cylinder and it still happens . Any help regarding this would be appreciated. Thank you,Dino
Jeff	#2  Posted on 10/22/07 - 5:17 AM
Member Posts: 1987 Comments: 34 Joined: 04/02/05	Dino, Did you also replace the plug wires when you replaced the power pack? You would never be able to see it if there was a crack in the isolation that would be causing a short. Also, if you do one you should do them all just as a good practice. You also replaced the plugs themselves right? 1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive
Derwd24	#3  Posted on 10/22/07 - 4:46 PM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	Another trick is to run the engine at night in the dark (with the cover off) as most of the time you can see the blue light emitted by the energy leakage of the high voltage circuit if there's a blatant problem.
finfish04	#4  Posted on 10/22/07 - 7:50 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 36 Comments: 0 Joined: 12/25/05	Hi Jeff and Derwd24, Thank you for your help.I put in new plugs before I changed the coil and powerpack and also replaced the ignition wire.I also since rechecked all the grounds and wires.I still am losing a cylinder.This intermittent problem is driving me nuts.I will next try Derwd24 suggestion running the motor at night with the cover off. I will let you know how it turns out. Maybe when this is resolved it could help someone else. Thank you both again,Dino P.S. Please keep the suggestions coming
Joe Kriz	#5  Posted on 10/22/07 - 8:05 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	The only other thing I can think of at this time is "Head Gasket(s)"...... But lets not go there yet..... Which cylinder? Edited by Joe Kriz on 10/22/07 - 8:08 PM
Derwd24	#6  Posted on 10/22/07 - 8:09 PM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	If it's the same cyl, I'll take a look at a schematic and see if there's anything else that could be intermittent electrically... BTW, Don't touch anything when you run it at night, a high voltage shock hurts like a sonova... Edited by Derwd24 on 10/22/07 - 8:10 PM
finfish04	#7  Posted on 10/23/07 - 9:30 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 36 Comments: 0 Joined: 12/25/05	Hi All, Thank you for all you help. I am going over everything one more time carefully.In thinking over everything for the 1000th time. I am losing the cylinder at idle and slightly above then comes back when I throttle up.Sometimes quickly sometimes after a bit.I have put engine tuner in the effected cylinder in thinking that it maybe a sticky ring. I do not know if a ring can cause this but,its worth a try. Thank you all again,Dino
Derwd24	#8  Posted on 10/23/07 - 10:50 AM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	Dino, If you think it's a ring, try the procedure outlined by Jeff (I'll past it below). There's a product made by SeaFoam called Deep Creep and can be picked up at most auto parts stores. It's like a fogger that you're able to spray and would work well in freeing up the rings and removing carbon in the combustion chamber. Give this a go and let us know how it's working: Remove the intake silencer box Start the motor on a set of water muffs or in the water. Run it a a higher idle say 1000+ rpm. Begin to spray the cleaner into each one of the carbs. Give each a healthy dose but do not let it flood out. Once you have gotten each carb repeat then finish by flooding out the motor with the cleaner thought the carbs. Once the motor is flooded out remove your plugs and spray the cleaner into the cylinders one at a time. With every cylinder spray turnt he motor over by hand a couple times. Once you have couple all cylinders hand tighten the plugs back into there seats and tilt the motor all the way up and let it sit for 6 - 12 hours or more. After sitting, cycle the motor over by hand a couple times. Once again remove the plugs and if you have an air compressor blow each cylinder out and turn the motor over by hand after each cylinder. Reinstall the plugs and wires and lower the motor back down. Either launch the boat or hook up the hose. Fire the motor up and be ready because once it fire up it will most likely want to over rev. If it want to run out of control shut it down and restart to it burns of the access fluid. Once it idles fine run it for a couple minutes. Rev it once and let it idle and repeat every 15 secs or so. That is it. Your exhaust in your prop should be filled with NASTY black brown goo. You should get a couple cans as you will surely go though at least a can.
finfish04	#9  Posted on 11/09/07 - 6:06 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 36 Comments: 0 Joined: 12/25/05	Hi All, I just had a chance to run the motor once more.Since the last time I posted I carbonized the affected cylinder.Thru a suggestion I ran the motor last night to see if any ground outs were occurring (none).I was lucky that during that try it dropped the cylinder again.No spark was getting to that cylinder.So the problem does not stem from something mechanical ,it is electrical related.Just to rehash everything I replaced the powerpack and the coil to that cylinder, I am going to recheck all the wiring and connections.My question is can a stator effect just one cylinder? I am posting this not only to help me resolve this but somewhere, someone else may be experiencing a similar problem.As always thank you for all your help,believe it or not I feel better about all this. I feel I am getting closer to a resolve,Dino
Derwd24	#10  Posted on 11/09/07 - 4:46 PM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	Quick question, when you bolted the new coil to the block, did you happen to look to make sure the block surface around the threaded holes was clean and shiny and not corroded?
murf	#11  Posted on 11/09/07 - 5:46 PM
Member Posts: 5 Comments: 0 Joined: 10/31/07	how did you determine what cylinder it was, how does the plug look in that cylinder clean or dirty what does top of piston look like shinny (water leak bad)or black (good) what is the compression on each cylinder try swapping the parts to a different cylinder and see if the problem moves you could have a water leak in that one cylinder ihad a simular problem with a 120 evinrude i had a the pin connecting the piston to the connecting rod come loose and wear a hole in my side wall engine ran but rough let me know how you make out good luck
finfish04	#12  Posted on 11/09/07 - 8:29 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 36 Comments: 0 Joined: 12/25/05	Hi all , At first I could not determine which Cylinder it was because the problem did not last and corrected itself.I got lucky and the one time it occurred I was able to remove the spark plug wires one at a time till the motor ran and sounded the same. Once That occurred I changed the spark plug swapped parts from one bank to another one at a time and cleaned all grounding points.Each time The same cylinder stopped working then started working.I then thought it might be a sticky ring or other mechanical problems.I then de-carbonized the motor especially that cylinder and rechecked the compression.All that checked out well.The last time I ran the motor at night looking for errant sparking and the cylinder stopped working I removed the spark plug wire and checked for spark with grounding a screwdriver on the plug it was not sparking.Then all of a sudden Spark.I rechecked all connections to that cylinder and cleaned them with electrical cleaner and even used a little Dielectric grease.It all seems OK now but that has seemed that way before.Sadly I had to winterize the motor today and cover up the Nauset till spring.I do not know what effect the stator has on this or what other electrical parts that can be involved other than the coil and powerpack if any.But I am going to research this further and come spring give her another go.The motor believe it or not runs GREAT except for this little hiccup.I will keep everyone posted when the saga begins again.Thank you all and I hope you and your families have a great holiday season,Dino
Derwd24	#13  Posted on 11/10/07 - 4:11 PM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	I know you've winterized already, but I'll never remember this in the spring... Took a look at the schematic for your powerhead. If all your connections and grounds are good, I'm guessing it may be a broken wire right at the base of the timer ring. When you have it running again, trace the wires back up from the power pack that has the intermittent cylinder and wiggle them around (carefully, you may want to use a stick or wooden tongs) and I wouldn't be surprised if you're able to get that cylinder to cut in and out. Seems on your engine there's 3 bundles coming off the timer base so make sure to trace them carefully. Good luck and think spring!
finfish04	#14  Posted on 04/28/09 - 9:32 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 36 Comments: 0 Joined: 12/25/05	Hi All, I know this is an old posting but in dealing with this on and off all last season (very,very sporadically),I have finally resolved the dropping of the cylinder.This week in getting the motor ready for the summer I removed the upper carb and exchanged it with another one from the same year and hp. the motor still was dropping that same cylinder. I rechecked all the fuel hoses prior to installation and squeezed the hose pump to apply pressure to the system and no leaks were found.On exchanging back to the original carb something told me to test once again the fuel lines under pressure once more while flexing the hoses. What I found was an extremely tiny, smaller than a pin hole leak right at the bend of the hose going from the fuel pump to the fuel distribution line leading to the carburetors.My guess is that while running the hose would sometimes move under vibration and would cause a drop in the fuel pressure enough so that the farthest cylinder (the upper left looking at the motor from the front) starved for fuel at idle and low throttle.What I thought was lack of spark (I guess my eyesight was not what it once was) turned out to be a minute fuel leak. I hope this helps someone else and would like to thank all those who have helped.Have a great season, Dino
moose	#15  Posted on 04/28/09 - 10:33 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 543 Comments: 1 Joined: 03/07/07	I hope you got it, but didn't you say that when it dropped te cyl. you pulled the wire and used a screwdriver to ground or near ground to check for spark, had none, and then got it back? I only say this because if that's true, you didn't find it yet. Mike
finfish04	#16  Posted on 04/28/09 - 4:26 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 36 Comments: 0 Joined: 12/25/05	Hi, The only thing that I can say for certain now is that it is fixed and when I checked for spark the way I did(lousy) it was the way I have done it years ago with a screw driver inserted in the plug boot then grounded out to the plug leaving a slight gap.I realize now that that technique is not good enough to properly check for the spark.For one I remembered years ago getting a jolt and since then have done this with extreme caution and apprehension. While the motor is running great now I retried my spark test and sometimes I see it and sometimes I do not.My spark test to put it mildly is the pits. I am 100% certain the problem is resolved and I am getting an inline spark tester for the future.Many hours have been spent in trying to solve this problem and I was so sure of the direction I was heading that I did not see the trees thru the forest.
CES	#17  Posted on 04/28/09 - 6:49 PM
Member Personal Page Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 2681 Comments: 7 Joined: 04/27/07	finfish. I'm having problems with my 40hp Yamaha and they seem to be similar to what yours where. My next thing to do after I rebuild the carbs again is to replace all the rubber fuel lines. Cliff 1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker
MW	#18  Posted on 04/29/09 - 1:03 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1827 Comments: 10 Joined: 01/08/06	You Isolated it, and found it, GREAT ! I had a similar problem once on another engine that I replaced the wires on, drove me nuts. My electrical check was "Different", I ran my hand down the spark wire while running, then I lit up like a Christmas tree, turned and said to my wife "Ya right, it was a faulty plug wire", she also pointed out that my new "orange colored" afro hair style looked kinda "hip". Matt