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1984 Johnson 150 idles great but low power in the water
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| drush777 |
Posted on 06/28/19 - 8:24 AM
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I recently purchased a 1983 Outrage that has a 1984 Johnson 150HP. The engine idles great with the muffs on, and pretty good at dock. When I put the engine at load seems like very low RPM. After an hour of running the boat will stall / die. Have to wait an hour or so before it will fire up and I can limp back to the dock. Any suggestions out there?
This my first ever boat, so I have basically no experience on the mechanical aspects. Wondering if the exhaust is clogged, or possibly a fuel delivery problem. The later doesn't make as much sense though as the unit runs great out of the water.
Any help / direction greatly appreciated.
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| gchuba |
Posted on 06/28/19 - 9:31 AM
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Take it to a mechanic and be prepared to throw no money at it. A 35year old motor has served its due. I trouble shot a 1982 235hp (nick named 2 "thirsty" five) Johnson.Similar issues, maybe not as severe. Never got it right with various corrections. Went E-tec. You will sleep better with a new (or newer depending on budget) engine. It was cheaper for me to buy a boat with the used engine I wanted than buy the motor separate.
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| drush777 |
Posted on 06/28/19 - 1:45 PM
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Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it. Hoping I can find a solution that can get me through the season. Family is excited for their first boa and not sure I can afford a new engine this year. That said the thought has already crossed my mind.
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| gchuba |
Posted on 06/28/19 - 3:03 PM
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Do not let the excitement of boat ownership get in the way of safety on the water. If bogging do check the motor height . Too low and it bogs down (at least mine did a 1979 22' Revenge). Best to have it professionally looked at. That motor is getting on in years so check around for an old school mechanic. Not the new age who has the computer programs and computer print outs. If I recall Lockemans Hardware is in the vicinity. Some knowledgeable fellows there. If they are too far away they might be able to give you leads.
Edited by gchuba on 06/28/19 - 3:05 PM |
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| dentpusher |
Posted on 07/03/19 - 5:00 AM
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I'm kind of "in the same boat" with a 21 year old 200 V6 Looper and I've been looking for replacement engines. But I have a question, if I still have 100-110 psi compression and my cylinder walls still scope with no scuffing (cross hatching still visible) why would I or OP need to replace the engine? These old motors are just air pumps and as long as you get it the fuel, spark and compression, why would it need replacement?
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| edmaude |
Posted on 07/03/19 - 5:42 AM
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If would at least replace the plugs wires plugs etc and do a complete tune up. This sounds like a power pack issue. check the evinrude and Johnson forums some great folks willing to help as well
1983 Outrage 18 w/ 2014 Etec 150 |
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| Phil T |
Posted on 07/03/19 - 7:26 AM
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Idle in gear is 700-900 rpms and can be set. Need a shop manual for this.
When at speed for ~20 minutes, slow to idle and check the temp of the tell tale stream with your hand. You could be overheating.
Check the fuel tank. Is it venting properly when running?
What are the other symptoms, what have you checked right at the time it shuts down. Can you catch it on a videotape?
Dealers are going to put you on the "drop it off and we may get to it by Christmas" list.
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| drush777 |
Posted on 07/11/19 - 6:12 AM
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Phil T wrote:
Idle in gear is 700-900 rpms and can be set. Need a shop manual for this.
When at speed for ~20 minutes, slow to idle and check the temp of the tell tale stream with your hand. You could be overheating.
Check the fuel tank. Is it venting properly when running?
What are the other symptoms, what have you checked right at the time it shuts down. Can you catch it on a videotape?
Dealers are going to put you on the "drop it off and we may get to it by Christmas" list.
Little update as I've taken it out twice since first posting. Top speed seems to be about 7 knots, this seems under powered to me but I have no other reference to compare it to. This is not with the throttle all the way open. If I push it much more than that it starts to bog down. If I leave it in idle no problem giving it throttle and going again. If I shut it down I can sometimes get it started, but also had to use starting fluid (this is not a great solution I know) twice. And sometimes it will start on its own after waiting. In all cases once it starts again lots of smoke and sputtering until it warms up again (5 minutes or so) and smooths out.
How would I know if the fuel tank is venting properly?
I'll see if the stream is hot or not, that hadn't occurred to me to check.
I've changed the plugs, Racor fuel filter. Added sea-foam and sta-bil. I'll change the wires as well. Anything else?
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| Walt Krafft |
Posted on 07/11/19 - 6:58 AM
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There is usually a fuel filter on (in) the engine. Change that one too.
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| Phil T |
Posted on 07/11/19 - 8:08 AM
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WOT is ....7 knots? Can you correct this typo.
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| drush777 |
Posted on 07/11/19 - 8:52 AM
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Apologies. 7 knots = about 8mph.
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| Phil T |
Posted on 07/11/19 - 10:28 AM
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If the engine will only accelerate to 7 knots then you have a significant issue that a mechanic is going to need to solve.
The critical thing to note is that it does not matter how the engine performs in neutral or on the muffs (out of the water)
What will help everyone is if you can use your phone and take some short 1-3 minute videos of:
1) how the engine starts in the water
2) how the engine idles in the water
3) accelerates from neutral. Showing the throttle advance and the sound of the engine.
Is it possible that you can capture these and either host them on a site or send them to me and I will post them for you.
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| Acseatsri |
Posted on 07/12/19 - 4:47 AM
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Sounds to me like carb jets are clogged. Carbs probably need to be taken apart and cleaned.
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| whph01 |
Posted on 07/12/19 - 1:28 PM
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Power packs, carbs or fuel filters. I would check the fuel filters and carbs first, they are the easiest to diagnose. Power packs are simple to replace, I would search Youtube to diagnose them.
I have a 1986 Outrage 18 with a 1986 150 hp. Evinrude. W.O.T. with 3 adults, 3/4+ fuel and some misc gear is approx. 47 mph (54) knots. That's in saltwater. It is "approx" because when I am going that fast and bouncing around in waves and holding the steering wheel and watching the tac (6,000 rpm) it is tough to stare at the little numbers on the chartplotter that are dancing around. Like the previous post, part of me thinks "why replace the engine?". And then everytime I am offshore out of sight of land and it starts to get sloppy, I think, "what the hell am I thinking coming out here with a 30+ year old motor?". The reason to replace is simple. It's 30 + years old, period. I can check the plugs, filters, replace hoses, check various fluid levels all day long and the engine is still 30+ years old and I really have no knowledge of it's previous history. What if the propeller shaft shears off? What if a power pack goes out? What if I get a short and on and on and on. What if I am dead in the water and have to pay 3 or 4K to get towed back in...
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| drush777 |
Posted on 07/13/19 - 12:31 PM
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Thanks for the feedback. I’ll take a look at the jets and the. On to the power packs. Also the fuel filter on the engine.
Re: the video I’ll get her back on the water next week and try get some clips to post.
I really appreciate all the help and comments. I’d be lost without it. Or posting the boat for sale.....
More to come.
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| MG56 |
Posted on 07/14/19 - 11:37 AM
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Drush
Excuse me if this has been asked but how long had the boat been sitting before you bought it? I'm guessing pretty much most of the time. Let me guess again, thus far no one recommended you run the engine on a portable tank.
I'll bet anyone right now that you are trying to run that boat on more water than fuel, 7 knots? This is not rocket science.
This is what you are going to do to save your summer. You are going to get a portable tank and run fresh gas directly to the engine. If you bypass the oil injection just add 2 stroke oil to the portable tank.
Everyone and their brother has a 6 gallon Johnrude tank you can borrow, and if you need a fitting to hook up to your engine every marina has one.
I'll also bet everyone that that engine needs a de-carb, but let's see what happens when you put known good gas to it.
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| whph01 |
Posted on 07/14/19 - 1:17 PM
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I agree with MG56, it most likely is the result of a fuel issue. It is highly doubtful that switching to a portable tank will resolve the problem, but he is right, that is where you should start. If you decide to take it in and have it worked on, then absolutely you should be running off of a portable tank before just hooking up your fuel line and heading out again. You should have a fuel/water separator filter mounted between the tank and the engine, if all you have is a fuel filter get a fuel/water filter. I use the Racor S2313, bought it on Amazon for $60. I have a 1986 Evinrude 150. Also, you will need to drain your tank and refill with fresh gas and add stabilizer at the same time. Personally I would use Sea Foam, it's about $7 for 16 oz. on Amazon. Also, you might as well replace your fuel lines. All this is easy and inexpensive, the fuel will be the most expensive item. Before filling the tank, get yours pressure tested if you can, you will most likely never have an empty tank again and now would be the best time if it has the potential to leak or not.
When you use the boat, you should fill the tank/top it off EVERY time - don't let it sit overnight without the tank completely full. I fill mine until fuel seeps out of the vent, and I add a can of Sea Foam every time as well. I used to add Sta-Bill Marine stabilizer but I think it is redundant with the Sea Foam. If you don't top off the fuel, that is how you get water in the tank. The tank walls will condensate and produce moisture and it will ruin the fuel (and your carbs).
That is an excellent boat you have! The Whaler Outrage is a classic and incredibly seaworthy.
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| biggiefl |
Posted on 07/16/19 - 10:19 AM
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All great suggestions. Another to consider is lower powerhead gasket. When they go bad the engine is sucking in water when in the water as the water is in the midsection. On muffs, no water pushing up from the mid. What is compression? A V6 will idle OK on 4 or 5cyls to an inexperienced outboard dude. Did you test run it before you bought it? Lastly if compression is good, carbs are probably gunked and you are only running on the idle circuits and would produce the same results. Keep running it and you will be getting that repower sooner than later, especially if starving for fuel/oil.
24 Whalers so far.... |
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| drush777 |
Posted on 07/20/19 - 9:58 AM
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Wanted to thank everyone again for all the suggestions and try and answer a few questions others posted.
I did replace the water fuel separator with a new one. When I dumped the fuel out of the old filter into a glass jar a small amount of water was visible after it settled. However I see no water in the clear cup on the filter. All that said I know it wont hurt to have the tank drained and start with fresh fuel. Just not sure what I do with the 30 or so gallons of fuel if I do on it my own.
I have 105 compression on 5 cylinders, 100 on the 6th.
I wanted to post a video and get more feedback but after reading all posts am a bit worried I may do more damage to the engine than good.
My next steps will be to clean/rebuild/replace carbs depending on the situation when I dig in. Next will be to see about the power pack. If those 2 fail suppose it's off to the local marina for repair.
Another question I have that was brought earlier, what should the height of the engine be? Right now it's on the lowest mounting possible. Wondering if a little higher may it help run better overall with the added benefit of raising the stern a bit as it seems like its stern heavy and rides low in the water. Any general thoughts on this?
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| biggiefl |
Posted on 07/22/19 - 9:25 AM
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height is OK for now. Work on getting it running correctly. You don't ever have to replace carbs unless something really funky happened. Usually a quick cleaning your at set.
24 Whalers so far.... |
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