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2000 Montauk 17 Re-power Mercury
deajam89	#1  Posted on 02/13/19 - 10:58 AM
Member Posts: 10 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/08/19	Hello all, Unfortunately the time has come to re-power my 2000 Montauk 17 with a brand new new power plant. I have narrowed down my selection to the Mercury 90 and the Yamaha 90. After discussing at length with the dealer which manufacture would be the best choice, I have decided to go with the Mercury 90 with the smartcraft package. (Dealer is both Mercury and Yamaha) The main points that swayed my position was the larger displacement, newer technology, reduced maintenance requirement and slight price difference. Another valuable asset worth mentioning is the vesselview mobile function which connects the outboard to your smart phone (extra $150.00 as of 2/13/19). You can research the specifics but in essence it provides up to date insight on your engine performance, maintenance records and fault alerts. I am expecting to "pull trigger" next week and would like to get some input from the whaler community before i make this investment... Does anyone have any opinions on the Mercury vs the Yamaha? In my very basic opinion, they are both great engines with proven track records. The price difference is not a factor in my decision. Its going on a whaler that I will have forever. I am most concerned with quality, low maintenance, low noise and reliability. Pricing includes motor, rigging and all new controls installed with sea trials (see below). Please provide your comments. any feed back is greatly appreciated! I will upload pictures and keep updating this post as the project comes along. Pricing: Mercury~ with smartcraft rigging Engine - $8,600.00 Parts - 1,981.00 Labor - $1,950.00 Total - +/- $13,000 (including tax) Yamaha~ with powermatched rigging Engine - $9,199.95 Parts - $2,089.39 Labor - $2,020.00 Total - +/- 14,000.00 (including tax) Tight lines! James
Phil T	#2  Posted on 02/13/19 - 12:29 PM
Administrator Personal Page Personal Album Project Albums Posts: 7043 Comments: 6 Joined: 03/26/05	You want to shop dealers. The engine prices sound inline. Can't speak to parts since there is no breakdown. Are they replacing steering cable? How many gauges/displays are getting installed, digital or LCD? Are they replacing the instrument plates? The labor rate at $150/hr translates to ~ 13 hrs. That seems a bit excessive. Any installer can strip the engine, throttle, gauges, harnesses etc. in 2 hours. That leaves ....9...hours to install? Prop? Price? Sea trial? 1992 Outrage 17 I 2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+ 2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT
JRP	#3  Posted on 02/14/19 - 3:16 AM
Member Posts: 755 Comments: 2 Joined: 08/29/14	Both great choices. I also agree with Phil that the installation prices seem on the high end - - I would shop around. All else equal, I would choose the Merc 90. However, I would be on the fence as to whether to select the optional Command Thrust (CT) gearcase. Which way are you leaning on that? But rarely is “all else equal”. The roughly $1K savings on the Merc would make the decision even easier. On the other hand, dealer support (quality, proximity, etc) is a major factor that can change the calculus. 19 Outrage II (1992)
deajam89	#4  Posted on 02/14/19 - 6:09 AM
Member Posts: 10 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/08/19	Phil T and JRP, Thanks for the reply. All elements are being replaced in both cases excluding steering components. Replacement of the instrument panel with (1) digital gauge and all new switches for nav lights, bilge and accessory is included. The quote also includes an aluminum prop (by choice) as the waters in the back bays of long island sound are skinny and abundant in boulders. The sea trial involves tailoring the mounting position of the motor for the hull and prop selection. They have a few different props that they try on the boat to ensure optimal performance. I was told that the command thrust gear case is intended to be used for work boat applications where low RPM torque is required. Essentially it was described to me as designed for work boats running all day at a low RPM and not required for my application. I shopped around and received 6 quotes for the re-power all of which were within a few hundred dollars of each other. The dealer I selected was not the cheapest but I have a long standing relationship with the guy and they are 2 miles from my home. I've used them for the past 8 years and intend on using them for all my servicing needs. It all comes down to labor hours. Correct me if I am wrong but i feel the removal, installation and sea trial for +/- 13 hours seams fair. All in all I don't think the pricing is unreasonable due to the pricing I received. Keep in mind I live in Fairfield County CT where everything seams to be a little more expensive... Another perk of the deal is they have a guy who they work with who parts out the motor on ebay and takes a 20% commission for his work. A little extra cash for me and he takes the burden of storing and parting out the motor (which I have no space or time to do myself). sounds good! Please keep the comments coming!
EJO	#5  Posted on 02/15/19 - 9:19 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 669 Comments: 6 Joined: 11/25/12	Sounds like the (your) decision is made. Good service, close by and less expensive Skipper E-J m/v "Clumsy Cleat" a 2008 Montauk 150
Finnegan	#6  Posted on 02/15/19 - 2:28 PM
Member Posts: 1926 Comments: 16 Joined: 05/02/08	As a Mercury owner, I would obviously recommend the Merc 90, which I believe will be more powerful than the Yamaha, with it's larger displacement. Stay with the regular gearcase and if you want aluminum, choose the Spitfire 4 bladed prop. The on-line Mercury prop calculator will tell you what pitch to use. Also, do not let them install Mercury's newer round top control, as it won't fit the Whaler console. Either keep your original, or have them get you this one linked below, about $250. If you need new control cables, be sure to use Sea Star Solutions "XTREME" cables. Nothing else compares. https://photobucket.com/gallery/user/...TE=/?ref=1 You seem committed to this shop, but I can tell you the pricing is way out of line. The pricing on the engine may only be $500 high, but $4,000 for materials and labor is ridiculous. I don't know all of the parts they are supplying, but having rigged at least 8 Mercury outboards in the past, I can't even come close to that kind of expense. All of your existing Mercury rigging (About $470 cost new - control, cables, ignition harness) should simply be a hook up, nothing else required, so no expense there. A Spitfire aluminum prop is about 150. $13,000 for a 90 HP installation just seems like too much to me. I would say $11,000 - $11,500 would be reasonable for what you are describing. As for the Yamaha 14K price, that's even worse.
12fish74	#7  Posted on 02/15/19 - 11:49 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 20 Comments: 0 Joined: 02/24/13	I bought my Merc 90 2.1L back in 2015 & I have got to say its been completely problem free with roughly 360 hrs on it. $13,000k does sound a little on the high side. I believe my whole set-up w/ controls & smartcraft gauge was right around $9k installed. But of course that was over 3 yrs ago & in Maryland.
deajam89	#8  Posted on 02/18/19 - 8:46 AM
Member Posts: 10 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/08/19	Finnegan, Thank you for your input. I will look into the cables and prop and work on the labor with the guy. Any other tips are greatly appreciated. I will update you as the build progresses. 12fish74, Thanks for the reply. That looks like the exact set up I am looking at. few questions for you. 1. Did you have the fitment issues described by Finnegan above with the top mounted console control? Is the base of the housing larger than the mounting surface on the console? Your photo looked like a good fit. 2. Does the stern sit lower in the water than with the original motor? Mine had a 1999 Mercury 75hp 2 stroke. 3. The motor appears to be larger than the 75hp 2 stroke... Do you notice a significant difference in size? if so, do you think it adversely affects the performance of the boat in any way? Can you cut your wheel to the port side without hitting the swim ladder? Thanks again guys.
12fish74	#9  Posted on 02/18/19 - 2:34 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 20 Comments: 0 Joined: 02/24/13	1. No fitment issues that I know of. The base of the controls sit perfectly flat with no overhang at all top or bottom on the mounting surface. 2. The stern only sits maybe a 1/4 to 1/2in lower than my previous Yamaha 90 2 stroke I had...barely a noticeable difference. I did of course move my battery inside the console to take some weight out of the stern. 3. Yes the motor is a little larger than my 90 2 stroke was. But not a significant difference like if you look at it & say oh my gosh that motor looks huge on that boat! It fits the boat quite well imo. As far as performance its notably faster, quieter, smoother & easier to start than the old 2 stroke...so performance wise its a solid gain. I cant comment on turning to port without hitting the swim ladder since I don't have one. Hope this helps!
deajam89	#10  Posted on 02/21/19 - 11:15 AM
Member Posts: 10 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/08/19	Thanks for the info. I will keep the thread updated as the build progresses.
deajam89	#11  Posted on 02/22/19 - 9:16 AM
Member Posts: 10 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/08/19	Update: I placed the order for the Mercury 90 hp this morning for a total of $8,600.00 (Tax 2.99% added to end balance) as the first of two installments. The remaining +/- $4,000.00 for parts and labor will be paid after the re-power is complete. As luck would have it, Mercury is running an additional promotional offer that provides the extended warranty and $450.00 rebate which will be credited toward the purchase of the motor. I spoke with the dealer about the labor hours and he explained that he quoted 15 hours @ $130.00/hr to strip the existing set up and install all new components and a sea trial for prop selection and engine mounting. He explained that this a not to exceed amount and would only charge me for the hours spent on the re-build. I am extremely excited to get this process rolling! I will take pre-build photos and will document the process.
Finnegan	#12  Posted on 02/22/19 - 11:11 AM
Member Posts: 1926 Comments: 16 Joined: 05/02/08	Very good. From my experiences, new engine controls, gauges, and misc parts should be about $700. A Spitfire/Nemesis 4 bladed prop should be about $170. Labor should be about 8 hours max. So you are looking at about $2k. It will take about an hour and 1/2 to lift off the old engine and pull out the old controls. I can't imagine that you even need a new key switch ignition harness or fuel line. I would be there when the work is being done so they do what you want and you can verify hours. The transom should be cleaned up and polished when the old engine is off. Have them install the engine in the middle set (there are five sets) of bolt holes. Caulking should be "Lifeseal" clear. Don't let them use ANYTHING else. Supply them the tube yourself if you have to, about $10. Mercury supplies 4-1/2" bolt kits with all engines, but they are a little long for the Montauk transom thickness. See if you can get them to substitute 4" long fine thread bolts, for a cleaner installation. You could also re-use the original bolts, and save the new set. They are valuable and could be re-sold for about $50. (fine thread, with brass nuts and SAE washers for the engine side.) You don't need a sea trial to select prop, since you can't run a brand new engine wide open anyway. Mercury's on-line prop calculator will tell you what you need. You should check it out. My guess is that you will need 19-21" in pitch. For the ultimate in accelleration and top speed performance get the new Spitfire X7 4 bladed SS prop. Your boat should do about 44-45 mph top end. Or get the aluminum Spitfire. You did not mention a steering upgrade to hydraulic, but you might want to consider Baystar. I did this on mine, which should be about a $1000 installed cost, and it is well worth it, and gives extremely clean rigging. ALL rigging should be dressed to the same side that the stern light is on. See photo of my rigging work in personal website link, Montauk album. If you are not going to hydraulic, it is EXTREMELY important on a Mercury to use the "Steersman" grease lube nut to avoid future mechanical (cable) steering freeze ups. Do a search on this site for "Steersman" for ALL details, including the critical O-ring detail. You should be very happy with your choice, and I hope the pricing comes out as I indicate.
Weatherly	#13  Posted on 02/22/19 - 11:12 AM
Member Posts: 752 Comments: 4 Joined: 12/31/06	You got a great deal from the State of CT with a sales tax cut: Connecticut cut its sales tax on marine vessels starting July 1, 2018. The sales tax rate dropped from 6.35 percent to 2.99 percent on vessels, motors and trailers. the rest of the deal, specifically the cost of parts and labor, not so much. Edited by Weatherly on 02/22/19 - 11:13 AM
JRP	#14  Posted on 02/23/19 - 7:06 AM
Member Posts: 755 Comments: 2 Joined: 08/29/14	Weatherly wrote: You got a great deal from the State of CT with a sales tax cut: Connecticut cut its sales tax on marine vessels starting July 1, 2018. The sales tax rate dropped from 6.35 percent to 2.99 percent on vessels, motors and trailers. the rest of the deal, specifically the cost of parts and labor, not so much. Wow, that is great. Saving 3+% on a big purchase like that is not chump change. Connecticut has the right idea on this - - they will likely see an increase in tax revenue as a result, due to making upgrades like this more affordable. 19 Outrage II (1992)
Tom Hemphill	#15  Posted on 02/23/19 - 1:00 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 136 Comments: 1 Joined: 01/19/08	JRP wrote: Weatherly wrote: You got a great deal from the State of CT... ...Connecticut has the right idea on this... It may be short-lived. The tax break began last July 1 and the new Governor already wants to get rid of it.
deajam89	#16  Posted on 02/28/19 - 8:26 AM
Member Posts: 10 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/08/19	Update: Dealer received the motor that was ordered 2/22/19 from Mercury yesterday (2/27/19). The motor passed visual inspection and is ready for installation. The boat will be dropped off at the marina on Saturday 3/2/19 to begin the re-power the following Monday. I am meeting with the dealer Monday morning to inspect the current set up and amend the proposal based on what parts can remain and what other parts are needed. At that point the dealer can place the order for parts and get started on the installation. I am going to print out this forum post and review Finnegan's part recommendations with the installer. Thanks Finnegan! I plan on removing the seat so I can restore the cushion, metal rails and handles while the boat is in the shop. Any recommendations on vinyl seat cleaning product? I also purchased the VesselView Mobile Module directly from Mercury to enable the VesselView mobile app function. Rather have than have not I think. (saved $48 buying directly) As a side note: I am funding the re-power with a Chase Freedom Unlimited credit card which has a 0.00% APR for 15 months and a 10K limit. This card offers $150 bonus points if $500.00 is spent within the first 3 months and 1.5% cash back for each dollar spent. So far i have "earned" $281.44 cash back for the project. I am paying 2K off tomorrow so I will have enough credit balance to fund the remainder of the project. I have already scheduled automatic balance transfer to pay off the the card of $1000.00/month. Within +/- 1 year I will have the balance paid off with 0 interest and earn a few dollars along the way. I highly recommend this route for the responsible person who has the discipline to make payment on time and credit worthiness to obtain a credit limit to fund the entire build. Please do your own research if you plan on using this method. Each persons financial situation is unique and needs to be analysed prior to making a decision like this. Project totals so far: Motor - $8,600.00 VesselView Module - $163.30 Total - $8,763.30 Thanks guys and keep the comments coming!