|
Repower 1973 21ft Outrage
|
| Radlax23 |
Posted on 12/28/17 - 12:17 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 28
Comments:
1
Joined: 07/13/13
|
Looking to repower my 21ft Outrage 1973. Currently have 1992 Evinrude 155hp Commercial (380lbs). 4- stroke motors in 175-200hp range weigh more than 500lbs. The Evinrude G2 175- 200hp is roughly 520lbs. Can the boat transom handle that kind of weight and does anyone have experience with these types of heavier motors on the 21ft Outrage?
1973 21 ft Boston Whaler Outrage |
| |
|
|
| Phil T |
Posted on 12/28/17 - 1:06 PM
|
Administrator
Personal Page
Personal Album
Project Albums
Posts: 7043
Comments:
6
Joined: 03/26/05
|
Unfortunately the G2 design of the E-TEC 150 is ~75lbs heavier than the G1 model.
While 500 lbs is not too much weight, it depends on the condition of the transom. If you shake the leg when tilted up is there much flex?
Other options: (all dry weights w/o prop)
Mercury 4stroke 150 ~455 lbs
Yamaha F150 ~ 478 lbs.
Suzuki DF150 ~512 lbs.
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
| |
|
|
| Finnegan |
Posted on 12/28/17 - 2:10 PM
|
Member
Posts: 1926
Comments:
16
Joined: 05/02/08
|
The classic Outrage 21 models, 1971-1979, can easily handle 600# or more on the transom.
My twins weight 610# combined.
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/l...Tc=/?ref=1
Since it appears you are looking for a big single, you want to avoid the huge looking engines.
They just don't look right on these classic 21's. I think the absolute best option in new 4-stroke power would be the Mercury 150. It has the most displacement of any of them, the smallest profile, the lightest weight and the most power - probably around 165HP. They are also competitively priced, around $10,600. And this engine is still large looking.
If you check the Metan classic reproduction site, I think there is a photo of one their 21 Smoothside knockoffs with one of these Merc 150s on it. You can see what it would look like on yours.
The worst mistake you could make for a classic 21 would be to select an Evinrude G-2 - they are monstrosities both in size and looks in my opinion, and just don't fit with any classic Whaler.
|
| |
|
|
| grizzly |
Posted on 12/28/17 - 6:56 PM
|
Member
Posts: 22
Comments:
0
Joined: 12/02/14
|
Subscribed to this thread, since I will soon be facing the same issue with the 1972 21’ Ribside I am restoring. I bought it with an old Merc 175 V-6 but it was non-operational so I never actually ran the boat before starting the restoration project.
I was actually thinking of repowering with a single 4-stroke Merc 115. Obviously no problem with the weight of that motor. I want the engine to look proportional to the boat and I think this motor will do that. I think the 115, especially in H.O. trim (or whatever Merc calls it), should be enough power to easily plane this hull, and I don’t care about top speed.
|
| |
|
|
| Radlax23 |
Posted on 12/28/17 - 7:02 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 28
Comments:
1
Joined: 07/13/13
|
My transom is rock solid (thank God!)
With 3 teenage boys who love to waterski/wakeboard, i worry about the low end torque of a 4-stroke
Right now i am looking at Suzuki DF175/200hp and Evinrude G1 200hp, but I will also explore the Mercury option.
Thanks for your responses and Happy New Year!
1973 21 ft Boston Whaler Outrage |
| |
|
|
| Weatherly |
Posted on 12/29/17 - 6:13 AM
|
Member
Posts: 752
Comments:
4
Joined: 12/31/06
|
Dick Fisher, President of the Fisher-Pierce Company, wrote in a letter dated 6/10/1970, entitled: Advance Information on Boston Whaler "Outrage"
Outrage is a rugged, seaworthy, fast twenty-one footer, made for any single large outboard motor, or twins totaling up to 200 horsepower.
Looking through photographs on this site and elsewhere on the net, revealed single outboard power ranging from a 55 HP 4 stroke Bearcat to an Evinrude E-Tec 250 HO.
Yes, there is the occasional twin-outboard rig, e.g, Mark Sr's personal page showing an O-21 rib-side rigged with Johnson 70 hp outboards.
I recommend a thorough inspection of your 1973 hull prior to making a repower decision. While I have never seen a transom failure on an O-21, I have seen a few bottom catastrophic failures of the hull on O-21 ribside and smoothside models. Specifically, a simple hammer tap on the bottom in the area of the planing strakes, located 3-4 feet forward of the transom bottom will determine if you have any potential delamination/separation of the foam from the hull.
I also recommend weighing your hull, when the old engine is removed and compare the weight to the factory specs.
I personally consider a single outboard in the 115-150 hp range as being more than sufficient horsepower for teenager-related water sports.
|
| |
|
|
| ClevelandBill |
Posted on 12/29/17 - 7:06 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 166
Comments:
0
Joined: 08/12/15
|
My experience is limited somewhat, but I remember skiing behind my dad's boat (an "off-brand" tri-hull with a deep center v) back in the lat 1970's/1980s. That boat was an 18', standard construction walk-through with a 115HP Johnson, 2-stroke. That motor would jump that boat up real quick, as most describe for 2-strokes. For a young skier, that boat would yank the tow rope right out of my hands from time to time.
My present boat is a 150 Super Sport (the recent model) with a 60hp 4-stroke. There IS a bit of squishiness at first start with this motor, but I'm imagining being on the end of the tow rope and having a much nicer pull up and out of the water. I haven't skied behind her yet. But this squishiness is the first couple seconds, and after that, she's all powerful and mighty. Plus, she doesn't stink (though I grew to associate 2-stroke exhaust with boats, outdoors, fishing, fun, and sex). And, she RUNS whenever, wherever, every time, especially good down in the low-RPMs.
I guess my point is ... one big, tough 4-stroke motor is going to bring more overall pleasure for more overall purposes than any other solution. The only exception I might make is if you had two smaller motors with completely separate fuel systems and you're going to places where you absolutely, positively are beyond towing. And in a 21' Outrage ... that's probably not going to ever happen.
ClevelandBill Ferry
m/v SHRUG
2015 150 Super Sport 60hp Merc |
| |
|
|
| Weatherly |
Posted on 12/29/17 - 8:00 AM
|
Member
Posts: 752
Comments:
4
Joined: 12/31/06
|
Bill: If you search in Google using the phrase "21st century outboard motor technology" the first of many hits do not include anything about "(one big, tough) 4-stroke motor(s)."
|
| |
|
|
| tedious |
Posted on 12/29/17 - 11:34 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 1072
Comments:
2
Joined: 09/07/08
|
Having driven a G2 with the integrated power steering, I would say go for that, in the 200HO version, of course. The clean installation, integrated steering, internal oil tank, and automated trim are really, really nice.
However, that assumes you have a good, local dealer - that's the most important thing of all.
|
| |
|
|
| ClevelandBill |
Posted on 12/29/17 - 1:16 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 166
Comments:
0
Joined: 08/12/15
|
I am attaching an article that tries to compare single versus double engines. I was wrong in my conclusion ... it is only less expensive to have a single engine, better on fuel, cheaper to buy. But for some desired characteristics, the dual-engine setup is better.
https://www.boatingmag.com/single-vs-...-0#page-10
ClevelandBill Ferry
m/v SHRUG
2015 150 Super Sport 60hp Merc |
| |
|
|
| Vances Revenge |
Posted on 12/29/17 - 7:56 PM
|
Member
Posts: 91
Comments:
2
Joined: 03/15/14
|
Nothing new is going to compare to the great power to weight ratio you have with your current motor. Nothing produces that kind of horse power in that weight range in today's world. But, nothing uses that much gas either.
I looked into this for my 22 Revenge and decided to rebuild the 1987 225 Evinrude (1992 is a much better motor)and purchased a new Yamaha 9.9 High Thrust kicker. The two combined weights are close to what 1 new V-6 4 stroke would be.
This weight also compares to what two 115 two stroke outboards that were often rigged on these boats in the late 70 to mid 80's.
The closest compromise is Yamaha's I-4 Series 4 stroke that weights just under 490 pounds for their 175-200 hp motors.
Vance
Edited by Vances Revenge on 12/29/17 - 8:01 PM |
| |
|
|
| Shickalee |
Posted on 12/30/17 - 6:32 AM
|
Member
Posts: 14
Comments:
0
Joined: 06/23/17
|
What is the max hp for this hull? Whatever the max hp is go with that imo. Personally, on older hulls I would go with a 2 stroke or an ETEC. I am not a fan of 4 strokes due to the heavier weights, especially 1st gens, less torque out of the hole and the higher maintenance costs vs a 2 stroke or an ETEC.
|
| |
|
|
| Shickalee |
Posted on 12/30/17 - 6:42 AM
|
Member
Posts: 14
Comments:
0
Joined: 06/23/17
|
ClevelandBill wrote:
I am attaching an article that tries to compare single versus double engines. I was wrong in my conclusion ... it is only less expensive to have a single engine, better on fuel, cheaper to buy. But for some desired characteristics, the dual-engine setup is better.
https://www.boatingmag.com/single-vs-...-0#page-10
Twins are usually ideal for a 24' and above especially a WA type model for performance/handling characteristics and if you are going offshore where getting back on 1 motor for safety is critical, if one of the motors becomes inoperable. Twiins, are also great for docking as you can use the dual controls to easily control the boat against wind, current etc... Only downside to twins is the increased cost in purchasing 2 motors, rigging and ongoing maintenance of 2 motors vs 1.
|
| |
|
|
| JRP |
Posted on 12/30/17 - 8:20 AM
|
Member
Posts: 755
Comments:
2
Joined: 08/29/14
|
Radlax23 wrote:....
Right now i am looking at Suzuki DF175/200hp and Evinrude G1 200hp, but I will also explore the Mercury option....
Unless you are planning to purchase used, the G1 ETEC 200 HP is no longer available. The largest G1 still available new is the 150 HP model.
Shickalee wrote:
What is the max hp for this hull? Whatever the max hp is go with that imo. Personally, on older hulls I would go with a 2 stroke or an ETEC. I am not a fan of 4 strokes due to the heavier weights, especially 1st gens, less torque out of the hole and the higher maintenance costs vs a 2 stroke or an ETEC.
ETEC engines are 2-strokes. Over the years, 4-strokes have become lighter and ETECs have grown heavier. In the size-range he's considering, the latest G2 ETECs are heavier than comparable-HP 4-strokes.
19 Outrage II (1992) |
| |
|
|
| Finnegan |
Posted on 12/30/17 - 11:13 AM
|
Member
Posts: 1926
Comments:
16
Joined: 05/02/08
|
A final option that has not been mentioned is a Mercury Optimax ProXS 150 (about 170 HP and $10,500) or 175. (about 195 HP and $11,500), economical and powerful 2-stroke DFI's. These only weigh about 430#
Here is a classic Outrage 21 that has one of these installed. The owner told me the boat does over 50 MPH with the 150 ProXS. Scroll backwards to see the engine photos.
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/197...-103190005
I also think that for those not seeking high speed, the new Mercury 4-stroke 115 ProXS, about 125 HP, that Grizzley mentioned, would be an excellent, economical (about $8,500) choice. The boat should run around 42 MPH with this engine.
|
| |
|
|
| wading mark |
Posted on 01/03/18 - 2:44 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 94
Comments:
0
Joined: 11/13/06
|
I have a 175 Suzuki 4 stroke on a 1977 21 Outrage and it is perfect. 51 MPH on top and makes gas at 35 mph. The boat handles the weight just fine. I know someone with the same hull and he put a 200 Suzuki 4 stroke on it and it hauls.
|
| |
|
|
| legacy |
Posted on 01/04/18 - 9:27 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 1
Comments:
0
Joined: 11/03/15
|
I own a 1971 ribside - hull #285 and repowered with a Honda 130 4 stroke (year 2000) when I restored the boat in 2016. I chose that engine since the commercial crabbers and clammers in my area have many of the same motors with between 5-10K hours on them. They are also the motors on all the Coast Guard, FBI, and police boats outfitted here. The motor weighs 508 pounds and I cruise at about 25 knots with a top end at 31 knots. I pulled tubes with two teenage kids on them all summer and the boat had plenty of power. I also slow troll for striped bass at 2-3 knots and the motor performs great at the low speeds without issue.
If you are buying new I could see a Honda 150 4 stroke looking good on the boat. There are 2 other ribsides in Raritan Bay that I have fished next to. One has a 150 4 stroke Yamaha and the other has a 175 suzuki on it and they both look good and perform well with those motors.
Hope this helps - Stephen
|
| |
|
