|
Should I buy a 2006 175 hp Johnson 2 stroke?
|
| arthureld |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 10:39 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 735
Comments:
7
Joined: 02/15/07
|
I can get a new 175 hp carbed Johnson 2 stroke for $9000 installed.
That is $7000 less then I'd pay for a new e-tec installed.
The Johnson comes with a 2 year warrenty.
Should I concider this for my 1984 Outrage 20?
Edited by arthureld on 09/04/07 - 10:41 AM |
| |
|
|
| Jeff |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 10:50 AM
|
Member
Posts: 1987
Comments:
34
Joined: 04/02/05
|
Roger,
If you want a good strong running motor that is going to last you for many years to come and you can stand a bit more noise and smoke from a carbed motor, buy it. Honestly you will be happy you did. Pocket that extra 7k....or you could buy another whaler or put a new motor on the 13
1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive |
| |
|
|
| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 10:51 AM
|
Site Owner
Personal Page
Personal Album
Photo Albums
Project Albums
Posts: 11447
Comments:
452
Joined: 03/18/05
|
That doesn't sound bad...
You can certainly buy a lot of fuel for the $7,000.00 dollar difference between the E-Tec...
We could not buy that Johnson new here in California.... It's not a clean motor..... We could also not use it on many of our lakes even if we could buy it.... but you don't live in California....
The Johnson has always been a good motor except for the 1998 to 2000 model when OMC was going bankrupt.... This new Johnson will also have the System Check so you can upgrade your gauges and controls too if you want.... You will need at least the System Check Tachometer at the minimum...
Good Luck and let us know what you decide...
|
| |
|
|
| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 11:26 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Project Albums
Posts: 917
Comments:
30
Joined: 07/24/07
|
$7k savings? I would recommend it. It would take many, many yrs, even at todays prices, to burn up $7k in fuel between the e-tec and the motor you're looking at. At $3/gal thats 2333 gal of fuel. Here in New York we have at best 4-5 months of boating season. The fuel consumtion between the two motors will not be that great that you would use that much fuel.
|
| |
|
|
| arthureld |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 11:31 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 735
Comments:
7
Joined: 02/15/07
|
Thanks for the input guys. I still haven't finished checking out my old motor, but if it's toast, I need to make up my mind quick.
I'll be the difference in reasale value of my boat with those two motors is only about $2000.
|
| |
|
|
| PaulTarwater |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 5:43 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 140
Comments:
1
Joined: 08/25/07
|
I would jump on it too despite the carbs. Carbs work fine when they don't sit plus 7K is a lot of wampum! I had a 2000 model 70hp Johnson on my flounder boat and it performed flawlessly for 24 months and one week.....one week out of warranty!!! The oiling system went out and it siezed up while I was trying to outrun a midnight lightning storm. Bankrupt OMC paid for the parts and I paid for the labor to rebuild it. It never ran right after that and I ended up selling it to my buddy who put a 75 ETEC on it. I also have a '95 model 30 hp Johnson on my jonboat and it has never given me a bit of trouble (my mechanic told me to run 93 octane gas with Stabil to prevent varnish in the carbs). I suggest the purchase but have a mechanic unhook that *&%$# oiling system and mix it yourself. Thankfully Texas still allows that. Nice find! Paul
|
| |
|
|
| jlh49 |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 6:16 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 92
Comments:
1
Joined: 02/25/07
|
I agree with Paul. As soon as the two year warranty is up, disconnect the oil side of the VRO and mix the oil with the gas. This effort is a little bit of a pain, but it ensures oil will always be there. This option was recommended by an Johnson Dealer mechanic after he had replaced the power head on my 1986 225 Johnson because of three scored cylinders that surfaced three days before the 1+2 warranty expired. OMC extended my warranty six months. During the subsequent period that I mixed oil with the gas, the motor ran great.
Jack Harley
1989 Outrage 22' 2005 Yamaha F150 |
| |
|
|
| Jeff |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 6:25 PM
|
Member
Posts: 1987
Comments:
34
Joined: 04/02/05
|
The VRO oiling system is a great system and will provide you with trouble free operation. Keep it running if you buy it. My VRO is 22 years old and never given me a bit of trouble. I upgraded to the full ethanol rated pump this spring.
Edited by Jeff on 09/04/07 - 6:30 PM
1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive |
| |
|
|
| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 6:29 PM
|
Site Owner
Personal Page
Personal Album
Photo Albums
Project Albums
Posts: 11447
Comments:
452
Joined: 03/18/05
|
Sorry. I DO NOT agree with removing the oiling system...
That's like buying a new car and removing the air conditioning and the power steering units....
Here is a question for everyone.
Do you personally know for a FACT that the oiler caused your engine to blow up????
I am not talking about what your, or any mechanic told us, do YOU know for a fact????
Too many mechanics like to blame the oiler when it had nothing to do with the oiler.
The oiler is a very simple strong system with very little, if any, problems.....
DON'T disconnect it is the best advice anyone can give you....
Unless you just like mixing and smelling oil and wasting money on the extra oil the engine will burn.
|
| |
|
|
| PaulTarwater |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 7:20 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 140
Comments:
1
Joined: 08/25/07
|
Good question gentlemen...one I have asked myself for the past 5 years. No, I do NOT know for sure the oiling system was the culprit. I just looked at the scored cyl walls and the pistons and went on the advice of the dealer mechanic. My OMC Systems checks never gave me any indication that the motor wasn't oiling. The previous 2 times out (before it siezed) the motor hesitated while getting on plane and then the last time out, it got on plane for about 10 seconds and then just shut down. Funny thing is, long before that when it was new, after only 8 hrs on the motor, I sucked up a plastic ice bag over the water intake which set off the overheat alarm. I shut it down for a minute to get it off and then started it again to get some water flowing through it. Idled for a few minutes til system check was happy and then took off again. No troubles for a year and a half but I always wondered if that short overheat played a role. Bad timing and bad luck all the way around on that engine. Poor 'ol girl. I have heard love/hate on those VRO's but I am sure the tech has improved since then. Thanks for the viewpoints. Paul
|
| |
|
|
| brooks89 |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 8:07 PM
|
Member
Posts: 177
Comments:
0
Joined: 05/24/07
|
Sounds like a deal and a half. It'd be nice to have that sexy new E-Tec but there's a lot you can do with 7 G's. I have a 2000 70HP Johnson and it runs like a Swiss watch. And never a lick of trouble with the oiling system.
Edited by brooks89 on 09/04/07 - 8:09 PM |
| |
|
|
| Derwd24 |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 8:40 PM
|
Member
Posts: 1607
Comments:
9
Joined: 05/09/07
|
VRO is a very reliable system that will save a significant amount of oil. On older engines it's good practice to check that the alarm systems are working on a fairly regular basis and you'll be good to go. Disconnecting a new system would be counter productive.
|
| |
|
|
| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 8:43 PM
|
Site Owner
Personal Page
Personal Album
Photo Albums
Project Albums
Posts: 11447
Comments:
452
Joined: 03/18/05
|
I am not putting down any members here. Some of you obviously have bad tastes in your mouth for the VRO....
However, I would tend to point at the bad mechanic.... Do you know any bad mechanics????
It's easy for a mechanic to say, it must be the VRO.... I still say Hogwash....
There are far too many bad mechanics unfortunately.... Unfortunately, this gives the good mechanics a bad name... I know several good mechanics.... They are few and far between.... Good mechanics are a dying breed like many things in this country... But, that is another story....
When buying an Outboard engine, or anything else for that matter, you are buying the whole package... You wouldn't buy a Mercedes or a Porsche and come home and rip out the transmission because your mechanic said it would cause problems down the road... Nope, your are buying the whole package.....
Yes, the OMC 1998 to 2000 motors were problem years for OMC... I still don't think it was the VRO but the entire package..... Those engines are still running fine for some people, but others had nothing but troubles....
Those days are gone... However, all outboard engine manufacturers have some type of problems from time to time... Like everything else.... _ _ it happens.....
None of the Outboard engine manufacturers today would be in business if they didn't have a good product... Are there bad engines coming off the any of the assembly lines...??? Of course... Every once and awhile... Again.... _ _it happens......
Now back to buying a new Outboard Engine......... with VRO of course.....
|
| |
|
|
| PaulTarwater |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 8:44 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 140
Comments:
1
Joined: 08/25/07
|
That too is what I anticipated from the venerable 3 cyl OMC products. I wish I knew what went wrong. Thank God for technology. Me thinks I have enough faith again to purchase a new motor if need be. They all seem pretty dang good. All I need is to get to where Mr. Flounder hangs out at night !!! Paul
|
| |
|
|
| Jeff |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 9:29 PM
|
Member
Posts: 1987
Comments:
34
Joined: 04/02/05
|
I stray away from motors with the VRO disconnected. It usually means upon poor advice from a mechanic or friend the owner or past owner was swayed into disconnecting the unit. So what else did that friend or mechanic talk them into? Running any old two cycle oil through the motor instead of a verified TWC oil? Dry starting the motor every once and a while? Who nows.
I will stand by the VRO till the cows come home. Most of that faith comes from having a great mechanic. A mechanic that will also stand by the VRO. If the mechanic is selling or servicing a motor or part he does not believe in why is he in business? More importantly why would you do business with them?
1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive |
| |
|
|
| PaulTarwater |
Posted on 09/05/07 - 12:12 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 140
Comments:
1
Joined: 08/25/07
|
My experience and instinct is to lean towards generic bad advice from an apathetic mechanic who is going to earn $50 hr regardless of the problem. The longtime dealer I dealt with sold out and bought a Harley bidness 2 years after that so maybe he knew something I didn't. Timing is everything. The new owners are now almost defunct because of price/service $$ padding that owners didn't need. 2 stroke motors are simple creatures who get hot for only 2 reasons: no water or no oil. Since I always saw water coming from the engine, I went with door #2. The modern Systems Check should alert you immediately if there is a problem. I just wish mine had. Thankfully, I found a wonderful mechanic shortly thereafter and now the flounder don't sleep well at night. All that being said, I would buy it and put the 7K in my pocket, get it on the water and have fun. Don't let it sit ! RUN IT ! Paul
|
| |
|
|
| arthureld |
Posted on 09/05/07 - 3:39 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 735
Comments:
7
Joined: 02/15/07
|
I really don't know much about VRO. But from what I gather, this is one of those long running arguements that will go back and forth forever.
My old motor had the VRO disconnected and I still burned it up.
It seems like with newer motors and all the alarms and auto shutdowns, you would have a hard time burning it up by accident even if the VRO failed.
I certainly wouldn't disconnect the VRO while it's under warrenty.
|
| |
|
|
| sraab928 |
Posted on 09/05/07 - 3:44 AM
|
Member
Project Albums
Posts: 1282
Comments:
13
Joined: 12/27/05
|
I have never had a problem with any of the VRO's I have owned and I would never disconnect one as a preventive measure.
As for the motor - 7K will buy a lot of gas or even other things - I would go for it if you can afford it.
Scott
1974 21' Revenge w Mercury 200 ProXS V8 |
| |
|
|
| jlh49 |
Posted on 09/05/07 - 7:20 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 92
Comments:
1
Joined: 02/25/07
|
I can't disagree with points made by everyone. It's all in one's perspective! I've spent many hours trolling at slow speeds. During these periods the engine ran at fewer RPMs resulting in lessor vacuum, thus less oil, but higher engine heat. No question you would burn more oil. But if the VRO fails to deliver the right amount of oil, how much oil can you buy for the price of a new power head? For those that are capable of doing their own engine work, the risk might not be as great. For those who cannot, the risk is much greater from a monetary standpoint. But that's what makes this website so great, Art and others in his shoes, has the benefit of this discussion to help make his decision.
Edited by jlh49 on 09/05/07 - 7:29 AM
Jack Harley
1989 Outrage 22' 2005 Yamaha F150 |
| |
|
|
| Jeff |
Posted on 09/05/07 - 7:59 AM
|
Member
Posts: 1987
Comments:
34
Joined: 04/02/05
|
The VRO is supposed to run at a lower oiling volume at trolling / idling speeds. Variable Ratio Oiling. In fact if your old VRO motor has over 20 hours of use on it then you should be able to run it for up to 3 hours at idle with out oil and not harm the motor. The residual oil built up inside the motor is enough to keep it lubed for that time. Much like the current E-Tec claims. This is a emergency only procedure of course. So it is not the time at idle that would cause a failure in most cases.
A lot of engine failure in that is blamed on the VRO is due to poor carb maintenance or a build up of carbon on the rings. If the carbs get full of old varnished fuel OR plugged with a bit of debris it will cause it to run lean and burn up the cylinders it feeds. To many this was caused because of lack of oil, no kidding it was lack of oil but, it was not the fault of the VRO system it was a fowled carb that caused it. If the VRO system failed completely then all of the internals would be shot not just a single cylinder or group of cylinders feed by that carb.
A lot of motors that show scuffing and scoring of cylinder walls did not get that way due to lack of oil. Most of the time it was caused by carbon build up on the piston and rings. Once the buid up gets to a point it will cause the rings to no longer move freely and even deform. This is when scoring occurs. This will happen even if the motor is getting the correct amount of oil. Once this begins it increases heat and will cause failure.
In both of these cases if you are running the VRO or premix the motor is going to fail you and not because there is an incorrect amount for oil in the fuel. It really comes down to maintenance of your motor.
Edited by Jeff on 09/05/07 - 8:01 AM
1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive |
| |
|
