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Rebuild old Johnson or buy E-tec
arthureld	#1  Posted on 08/27/07 - 8:35 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 735 Comments: 7 Joined: 02/15/07	I am going to be faced with the decision to rebuild, or buy a E-tec one day and I would like to be well informed. I really like the idea of keeping the engine that originally came with my 1984 Outrage 20. It's a 1984 Johnson 185 hp that is running strong. I had the compression checked and was told that one cylinder was lower than the others, but was within what is concidered acceptable. I don't take my boat anywhere that has smog restrictions and I don't put enough miles on it to save thousands of dollers in gas. If I have my old Johnson rebuilt, including the gear case, and carberators. And new thermostate and waterpump, will it be dependable? How much would that rebuild cost? Is there anything else that I should have rebuilt while I'm at it? Also, when should I rebuild? Do I wait until the compression is out of the tolerance that is concidered acceptable, or do I just do it this winter to avoid causing more damage. Of course I don't want to rebuild if it would be more expensive than the E-tec. Edited by arthureld on 08/27/07 - 8:36 AM
Jeff	#2  Posted on 08/27/07 - 10:30 AM
Member Posts: 1987 Comments: 34 Joined: 04/02/05	Engine Rebuild with all new internals, Thermos, and gaskets $3500 - $4000 Carbs $500 - $750 Lower unit $1750 New VRO pump $500 All New wiring harnesses $500 - $750 Water pump $250 - $300 Fuel Lines? New Steering? On and On. When you and thinking of a rebuild you should rebuild before the motor goes boom. After it does that you will have a much shorter life span on the rebuild due to the extra machining and reduced cylinder wall thickness. Your compression numbers will be the most honest assessment of the remaining life of the motor. Also when rebuilding the skill and knowledge of the person doing the rebuild has a lot to do with how well and how long your rebuild will last you. Lockemans who did mine is the Oldest continuously operating sales and service OMC / BRP dealership in the world. There is a reason for that, and it is all about their service and quality of workmanship. I probably would not trust a rebuild of my motor done by some of the other shops out there. As for a new E-Tec, well how long are you planning on keeping the boat. And be honest with yourself. If it is less than 5 years you are better off finding a good newer used motor and hanging it on your transom and not even bothering with your 185. 1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive
WhalerDan	#3  Posted on 08/27/07 - 10:36 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 245 Comments: 1 Joined: 11/13/05	Call Ralph at Lindenhurst Outboard: 631-225-0077 He's a Johnson/Evinrude dealer. You can tell him Dan with the Montauk that he replaced the VRO pump on recommended him. I spoke to Ralph today for a Whaler Newport owner that needs some motor work done.
arthureld	#4  Posted on 08/27/07 - 11:01 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 735 Comments: 7 Joined: 02/15/07	Thanks Jeff and WhalerDan. I know Ralph too WhalerDan. His shop is about 1 mile from my house. The only other place that I was considering is Outboard Service in Freeport. Ralph's place is in the WC site map as Outboard Wizard. He has an extensive website with lots of usefull info. Since my engine runs good right now, my next step will be to do a compression check myself and see what numbers I come up with.
Joe Kriz	#5  Posted on 08/27/07 - 11:15 AM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	arthureld, It is always a tough decision on which way to go here. One thing I would like to mention. It is not always necessary to replace ALL the cylinders................ These days, it is easy to do just the one cylinder if the rest are OK.... Some of the prices Jeff quoted above are if you do them individually. If you rebuild the lower unit, then the water pump would not cost $250 to $300 as the lower unit would already be off and replacing the water pump is easy.... If you plan on keeping the boat until the day you die, like me, then I would run the engine until it goes kaboom....... Then back the boat up to a new E-Tec and ride off into the sunset.... I have a 1985 Evinrude 150 that is running just fine... Compression is good on all cylinders... It runs good with no problems... Still, I would like a new engine.... Good luck with your decision...
Derwd24	#6  Posted on 08/27/07 - 11:54 AM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	There are two things that are steering me away from rebuilding my '87 225 HP. First one is that even after a rebuild, I'll still have many parts that are 20 years old on the engine, and aside from additional cost and frustration if something like a power pack or coil would fail, it also lends itself to questionable reliability. Second factor is fuel economy. Even if I were to be able to get it back to near new spec's, it's still a gas guzzler. I don't go too far either but was amazed at how much fuel this engine consumed on a daily basis. From actual owner feedback, it seems a new E-tec 200 would reduce my fuel use by 1/3+, and a Yamaha 150 4 stroke would cut it by 2/3! Given the volatility of gas prices, that's a big plus in my book. And having just been stranded when the 225 quit, reliability is now very high on my list, and a new engine would provide that. Just my current thinking, hope it helps.... Dave
arthureld	#7  Posted on 08/27/07 - 12:07 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 735 Comments: 7 Joined: 02/15/07	One thing I did is to sign up for SeaTow. lol When I went out the inlet yesterday to the ocean, I happened to see a SeaTow boat out there. So, I went home and signed up. I really need to get a kicker too.
Derwd24	#8  Posted on 08/27/07 - 12:42 PM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	Kicker is a great idea, I'll have one on board next season for sure. Was also a bit surprised at reading that a smaller kicker (8hp or so) is going to be fairly equivalent to a bigger (15 hp) as far as overall (sub-plane) boat speed. Makes a difference as a friend's '00 Yamaha 15 HP 2 stroke is noticably heavier than another friend's 6 HP Evinrude 2 stroke, which actually moved my 22' hull very well for its size! So I'll be looking in the 6-8 HP range as they sure feel lighter to lift.... Edited by Derwd24 on 08/27/07 - 12:43 PM
arthureld	#9  Posted on 08/28/07 - 5:45 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 735 Comments: 7 Joined: 02/15/07	Joe Kriz wrote: One thing I would like to mention. It is not always necessary to replace ALL the cylinders................ These days, it is easy to do just the one cylinder if the rest are OK.... Are you saying that you can pull of the head and replace the cylinder sleave and piston? I'm having a hard time imagining how you could get the pin thru the piston and connecting rod.
Henry	#10  Posted on 08/28/07 - 1:13 PM
Member Posts: 62 Comments: 2 Joined: 05/25/07	Derwd: Where did you read that a 8 hp kicker is the equivalent of a 15 hp kicker? I would sure like to read that. Thanks.
Joe Kriz	#11  Posted on 08/28/07 - 1:24 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Henry, I think was Derwd24 is talking about is this: An 8hp, 9.9hp, 15hp, 25hp, will only push an Outrage 18, 20, 22, 25, at exactly the same speed. The hull has a displacement speed no matter what kicker you have. The hull will only go about 6 to 8 mph no matter what the size of kicker. So, in that sense, the 8hp is equivalent to even the 25hp......
Derwd24	#12  Posted on 08/28/07 - 4:05 PM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	That is it Joe. And I have to add that the day after my engine quit, I had to get the boat from the mooring to the ramp (about a mile distance). The wind and waves had picked up, and my friends little 80's Evinrude 6 HP did surprisingly well getting me there. It hadn't been run in almost 2 seasons so I took it easy at about 1/2 throttle, and though I didn't set any speed records, the boat always responded to tiller input in the swells and easily got me where I needed to go. That convinced me that a smaller kicker will do the trick with less weight to carry around (both manually and when on the transom if not a permanent mount), even on a 22' hull. Arthur, the power head needs to be torn down in any case, but you can save the expense of 5 extra pistons, rings, etc if you decide to just bore one cyl. (though it wouldn't hurt to have the others honed and swap the rings, but then the expense starts up again and the question is where to draw the line...)
arthureld	#13  Posted on 08/28/07 - 7:06 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 735 Comments: 7 Joined: 02/15/07	Well, looks like I may be needing to decide real quick. I overheated my motor tonight and had to get towed in. It's not seized, but it won't start. I'll post what I find out when I get time to look into it. Edited by Jeff on 08/28/07 - 9:03 PM
Jeff	#14  Posted on 08/28/07 - 8:58 PM
Member Posts: 1987 Comments: 34 Joined: 04/02/05	Roger, Take the opportunity to take the heads off and look inside for damage. If nothing else it is a great learning opportunity. Like I said before, be honest with yourself and if you think you will have the boat more than 5 years rebuild (if you want to) or repower. If you just need something to get you back out on the water a good used motor will cost you less than a rebuild in some cases. It also could last many years to come. Watch screamandfly.com as there are always good motors for sale on there. You will be able to put any OMC motor up till 1995 on your hull without having to change anything in your rigging. After 1995 you will need a wiring harness adapter. If you are planning on coming home to Detroit this winter I would recommend checking with Dave at Lockeman's as see what he has. A clean used freshwater motor will last longer than a used salt in most cases. Anyway call him for a price on a E-Tec. Tell him I set you. Edited by Jeff on 08/28/07 - 9:32 PM 1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive