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1989 90 hp yamaha 2 stroke won't turn over
SENC	#1  Posted on 07/11/14 - 3:45 PM
Member Posts: 14 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/28/14	I have a relatively new to me 17' whaler with a 1989 yamaha 90hp 2 stroke. I pulled it out of the water today to swap out props (I've been trialing several to find the right replacement for the dinged up aluminum prop that came with the boat). 90 minutes later and back at the boat ramp, the motor wouldn't turn over at all - not a sound - as if all power was off. Everything else seemed totally functional - trim, bilge, lights, etc., so I know we had power. Kill switch was in the proper position, through I tried flicking it on and off several times to just make sure the switch wasn't acting up. Under the console and in the battery compartment, all connections look solid and all fuses I pulled look fine. I've been boating off and on for 30+ years and do some of my own light work on boats, but never anything substantial nor electrical. That said, I'm pretty handy and have done a fair amount of electrical, plumbing, mechanical work around our houses over the years. Shortest way to put it is that I'm somewhat ignorant but not inept. Naturally, this type of thing could only happen at 430 on a Friday afternoon when the mechanic I would normally turn to for help is off for the weekend, and without paying a fortune I won't have anyone to help so I can try to get it available for the weekend with the kids. I would greatly appreciate any guidance, tips, or suggestions for troubleshooting. Treat me like a total novice - 90% of the work I've done on boats, home, etc. has been self-taught and not learned in the trade, so I may not be familiar with technical terms - and won't be offended by being talked down to. I'm treating this as an opportunity to learn something about my boat/motor that I didn't know how to service before. Just a little more background - the motor has been running very well - no starting issues, no obvious electrical or battery issues. I had my mechanic replace the original trim system with a used system off another motor right after I bought it (about 45 days ago) due to some known issues at boat purchase. He also replaced the impeller at the same time. The only other "bug" at the moment is an intermittent overheating alarm - we're troubleshooting to determine whether thermostat or sensor. I changed out the spark plugs a couple days ago. Other than the 1 mile run to the ramp today to take it out of the water, it was run a couple hours yesterday with no issues. It had been sitting for about 4 days prior to that. One other tidbit that is probably irrelevant, but that may impact guidance. The boat originally had a mercury engine (1991) - and whomever repowered with the used yamaha (over 4 years ago, as the yammy was on the boat when the last owner bought it) did not replace the ignition nor throttle, so they are both still merc parts. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. Edited by Joe Kriz on 07/11/14 - 4:04 PM
Joe Kriz	#2  Posted on 07/11/14 - 4:09 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	The bilge and lights are on a different circuit. This is the accessory circuit. The engine trim will still work with the key off, or should. This is on the engine harness circuit. Was the throttle in neutral? It won't start if it isn't, or shouldn't start anyway. When you turned the key switch on, did the gauges move? If not, then you could have a bad key switch. Next I would check the starter and the plus and minus cables from the battery to the starter. Make sure those cable connections are clean on both ends. Starter and battery. The boat originally had a mercury engine (91) I edited your post because I wasn't sure if you had a 91 hp motor or a 1991 year model. That is one of the reasons we have the 3 guidelines on our front page. Please use the full 4 digit year for everything so we all know exactly what you are talking about. Edited by Joe Kriz on 07/11/14 - 4:11 PM
gchuba	#3  Posted on 07/11/14 - 4:30 PM
Member Posts: 1675 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/31/13	The accessory wiring (bilge, lights, etc...) is a totally separated from the motor starting. A different system altogether. Take off the motor cover and trace the wires for starting from the key. I believe that motor has an inline fuse ( usually in a heavy rubber jacketed watertight coupling) that completely kills the starting. Make sure all the connections are good in there as well as at the key, etc.... I am not big on "splicing wires" to make controls work unless with an adapter kit and even then.... The color coding system might be off if tracing connections. Start there. In the long run I would get the factory correct harnesses if existing connections seem home made. Garris
Alan Gracewski	#4  Posted on 07/11/14 - 4:40 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 110 Comments: 1 Joined: 01/25/10	SENC: Joe's advice is right on. Always check the neutral switch, first by moving the shift lever slightly back and forth around the neutral position while holding the key in the start position. It could be improperly adjusted or centered on neutral. You could check the switch itself with a volt/ohm meter, but sometime they are difficult to access in the control box. Alternatively, you could switch the ignition to the on position, and use a jumper wiire to connect the positive battery terminal to the positive side of the starting solenoid. If the engine starts, you know it is related to the start switch or neutral switch. Next thing to try (in case the start solenoid is bad) is a jumper from the battery positive direct to the starting motor positive terminal...CAUTION, you must use heavy jumper wires like you would use for jumping batteries from one car to another, and be careful because there will be some sparking involved. Connect the clamp to the battery first and then when ready, touch the starter positive terminal. If you are unsure about any of this, get some experienced auto or marine person to assist. To go further is not difficult, but you should have a good schematic/wiring diagram of the electrical system and a volt/ohm meter. Al
100 Montauks	#5  Posted on 07/11/14 - 5:05 PM
Member Posts: 5 Comments: 0 Joined: 09/17/09	Easy way to trouble shoot this is...... Disconnect the the main harness at the engine Jump the solenoid....it will start....it's either the neutral switch or key switch... This is how you crank it if you've lost your keys etc,,,,, Keep em Original
Joe Kriz	#6  Posted on 07/11/14 - 5:08 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	100 Montauks wrote: Easy way to trouble shoot this is...... Disconnect the the main harness at the engine Jump the solenoid....it will start....it's either the neutral switch or key switch... This is how you crank it if you've lost your keys etc,,,,, I don't agree. What if the starter is bad? Then it won't start no matter how many times you try and jump it.
SENC	#7  Posted on 07/11/14 - 6:59 PM
Member Posts: 14 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/28/14	Thanks, all... a number of things to try and work on first thing in the morning when fresh. Yes, Joe, the gauges do move when the key is turned. I did shift the throttle in and out to ensure it was in neutral. Observing the action on the engine with the cowling removed, the throttle is functioning correctly and the engine is definitely in neutral, but no love. Is there an electrical contact somewhere on the throttle that I should check? Edited by SENC on 07/11/14 - 7:08 PM
wing15601	#8  Posted on 07/12/14 - 9:04 AM
Member Posts: 699 Comments: 0 Joined: 07/14/12	Agree about the neutral start switch. Either out of adjustment or bad. Check the battery connections at the battery that they are clean and tight. A loose or dirty connection can let enough current pass for lights etc but not high current like the starter. Check the solenoid. There should be 12V at the point between where the positive cable from the battery connects and ground. Are those cable connections clean and tight? Can you check the wire at the solenoid where the 12V is applied to the solenoid coil when the key is turned to start? Are those connections clean and tight? One thing I have done, and advise to use caution, is to use a jumper cable and jump the contacts on the solenoid for an instant to see if the starter will spin. There is also a possibility there may be an open in the starter coil but you should be able to hear the solenoid click if it's getting power. I winter in Ft. Myers and summer in St. Joseph, Michigan. It’s now about 12 years since I’ve joined this group. I gave my 1972 whaler to my daughter and sold the 17’. Bought an O’Day 28 sailboat and sailed on Lake Michigan. Yesterday I bought a 2005 130 Sport.
SENC	#9  Posted on 07/12/14 - 10:34 AM
Member Posts: 14 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/28/14	Was able to bypass the solenoid and starter engaged. Tested at solenoid and wasn't getting voltage. Found neutral safety and couldn't get continuity through it. Pulled it off and manually depressed plunger, got continuity... so for some reason the plunger isn't getting depressed enough as ghe throttle linkage moves (it is moving correctly). I was able to bypass the neutral safety and get the motor to turn over, so we have definitely located the issue. I'm trying to find a pic/diagram of the neutral safety appropriately mounted... wondering if something has fallen out or gone missing.
Joe Kriz	#10  Posted on 07/12/14 - 10:43 AM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Glad you found the problem. You probably can just replace the switch. What type of Mercury control do you have?
SENC	#11  Posted on 07/12/14 - 11:02 AM
Member Posts: 14 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/28/14	The switch is in the motor, so I'm assuming it is a yamaha part. After messing with it for a while, I've concluded the part is broken and am trying to find it now. Will likely have to order it, but at least I can bypass the safety and use the boat in the meantime.
dauntless-n-miami	#12  Posted on 07/12/14 - 5:00 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 315 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/05/08	Glad you solved the immediate dilema SENC, for ordering parts try www.simyamaha.com. They offer good service and web prices if your interested in on-line ordering. You can do a google web search for Yamaha 90 wiring color codes and application along with schematics. A shop manual may be in your near future... Best, Angel M. 1996 Dauntless 15, Sportsman Pkg. - 2007 Yamaha 90 HP 2-Stroke
100 Montauks	#13  Posted on 07/14/14 - 6:22 AM
Member Posts: 5 Comments: 0 Joined: 09/17/09	If the starter is bad, won't start anyway..this is a fool proof method to trouble shoot.. I've used it for years.. Any seasoned Yamaha guy knows this.. Keep em Original