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Hi everyone,
I joined the forum a month or so ago to start learning more about Whalers. Have always been impressed by their reputation so I decided to take the plunge. I bought a 1979 Newport 17 off ebay and drove from Nebraska to Northern Michigan to pick it up. Not only was I not disappointed, I was ecstatic. The boat is everything it was described to be and in nearly new condition. Now for my questions: I have read differing views on the Johnson VRO engines. This boat has a 110 HP VRO that runs like a top. Smoothest idle I have ever had on a large engine. I have read that some disconnect the VRO and others say if it is not a problem leave it alone. Interested in opinions. Also any recommendations on a stainless prop size (currently has an aluminum). NOTE: we sea trialed with 5 large adults on board and the boat screamed. I did not have my GPS but I am guessing we were doing at least 45 MPH with 5 adults. My concern: data plate says the boat is rated for 100 HP. The boat seems to handle the additional 10 HP but I wonder if it shortens hull life expectancy to overpower. Thanks for any advice or info.
Kirk
Welcome Aboard WhalerCentral and congratulations on purchasing your first Whaler.
Yes, the boat is rated for 100hp maximum but the other 10 would not hurt unless you let kids drive the boat. The insurance companies may also charge you a little more for being overpowered.
Many people do overpower their boats mainly because some engines weigh the same in the higher horse power and the smaller motors... Example: some 75, 90, 115 hp engines from a give manufacturer might all weigh the same. Therefore, why not go with the larger motor.. Again, if you don't let young kids drive. An overpowered boat should be in the hands of an experienced operator.
I would never, ever, disconnect my VRO.... Never....
You will however get other opinions...
I for one hate mixing oil in fuel. I could never get it exactly right. Not enough oil and you may burn up your engine. Too much oil and your engine will smoke profusely...
I agree with Joe about the VRO. I'd heard all sorts of negative stories about the pumps failing and being unreliable and was considering disconnecting on a newer engine we'd bought for my cousin's ski boat, then I read this article and it really cleared up a lot of the uncertainty. I wouldn't even consider doing it now.
I also wonder if engines were heavier at the time the boat was built, and an equivalent weight engine today would have more horse power?
The article Dave posted above ( VRO STORY—The Myth of the Mixer ) was originally published by Bass & Walleye Boats magazine article in Jan. 2000 and Trailer Boats Magazine in Feb 2000 by Bill Grannis under the title of VRO the real story and also Bad Rap if you ever need to look it back up.
I just replaced the VRO pump on my 1985 235 hp Evinrude on the stern of my Whaler 22 Outrage and it was a relatively cheap piece of mind. Also, the new pump is fully ethanol rated where all previous generations of the pump are not. I would NEVER disconnect my VRO system because premixing 75 gallons of fuel is just a hassle and you are truly guessing at the mixture over time. One tank you might have been at on the lean side of oil to fuel and so you mix heavy on the next tank and the cycle goes on and on till how knows what the fuel is really mixed at in your tanks. I would recommend getting a new pump installed and make sure the dealer installs the latest pump. You will know if it was the latest by the top fitting. I will take a picture of my new and old one in the morning.
As for the hull and overpowering. Well it will not effect the life of the hull but like Joe said be careful of who operates it and never let any one, friend or family, drive the boat unless you are 110% sure they know what they are doing. For boats under 20' you can be cited in some states and possibly by the Coast Guard for having a motor that exceed the rated capacity of the hull. Also, Yes the overpowering could be a factor in a lawsuit (you just never know) so always think about that when you let another person behind the wheel.
We had a 1984 Montauk with a Merc/Mariner I-6 90hp motor. This series of Merc motors where often referred to as "Towers of Power" because they always put out more hp at the props that what was stated on the motor. So in all likely hood our 90 really put out about 100 - 110 hp (some where even more) at the prop as it was a Rocket. On a crappy aluminum prop is was a constant high 40 mph (51+mph once) boat. At those speeds with that hull you really need to know what you where doing.
Anyway Good luck with the boat and where in My Great State did you get it from? There are a lot of great fresh water preserved whalers up here.
Cheers,
Jeff
Edited by Jeff on 06/21/07 - 9:09 PM
1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive
I'm old school I would NEVER go with the VRO, ya gonna trust your engines life on a 25 cent rubber diaphragm, NO-WAY, look at what happens to that crummy rubber diaphragm fuel pump, they fail all the time, get pin holes etc, I only have a pee wee 50 H.P. so I don't have much fuel to mix (6 gal), if I mix the fuel, I KNOW THAT OIL IS IN THERE, one less thing to fail on me out on the water, just my 2 cents !
mw
I am new to the forum as well, but not new to boating and outboards. I have experience with oil injection since 1985, no issues, except for hoses drying out. One thing I not have read in the posts above is that oil injection has been around on motorcycles since the early 60's and maybe longer. Not a new technology any stretch. As far as the VRO, my brother has 120HP VRO on his Evinrude from early 90's, no problems. All the manufacturers design thier systems to be as fail proof as possible. I recall when I purchased my 175 Merc new in 1985, I great reservation about the new oil injection system, 21 years later still working fine, with relatively minor maintenance. Just check those hoses and connections regularly.
As far as over powering the your boat??? I have Super sport Limited (same hull as a Montauk) capacity plate says 100HP. I am sure I would safe with a 115. If one handles a boat in an irresponsible manner there will be trouble even with a 70 HP regardless if kids operate it... Caution is always best.
I may upgrade my 17Ft to a 115 HP as well if my insurance company agrees to insure it.
The Coastguard has a formula to calculate HP rating (info from another site) (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/julqtr/33cfr183.53.htm)
The formula provided in the regulations would be roughly interpreted as follows:
(2 X L X W) -90 = rated horsepower
Where: L=boat length: W=transom width; if the boat does not have a full transom, the transom width is the broadest beam in the aftermost quarter length of the boat. The rated horsepower may be rounded up to the nearest "5".
Here is how the formula works applied to an older Boston Whaler, a pre 2002, 17 ft model:
Boston Whaler Montauk 17
Length = 16' 7" Width = 6' 2"
Thus: (16.6 x 6.17 x 2) - 90 = 114.84 HP
Rounding up to the nearest .5 = 115HP maximum rated HP
Im with MW on this issue. OI's are really great when they work like they are supposed to, but if they do quit, your motor quits. As long as you don't mind the effort of mixing, and you have the ability to do it right, then that is the safest way to go. My dad didn't believe in getting rid of his injector, but it finally went out and he was stranded and had to buy a new motor(just as cheap as fixing an old one). Mixing too rich or too lean within a few percent is tolerable. Injectors have some tolerance factors built into their design too.
I have been on the road for the last three days so just caught up on the thread. I guess I would get as many differing opinions as there are boaters on the VRO issue. I have decided to leave it functioning but be very watchful for the immediate future. I do have some questions as to the best pitch prop for that hull/engine combo. Anxious to get to the water with my new toy, but have surgery to reattach a tendon in my left elbow Friday so may have to just sit and look longingly at my whaler for a few weeks...
A few years ago the "Bay Constables" here were using 22' Whalers, with 300 H.P V8's on the back as "Chase Boats". They had to put the "Radar Arches" on the back to re-enforce the transomes, Insurance issues put the "Chase Boats" as "OVER RATED Engines", and a "High Risk" for the "Town", this has lead to their demise. They were "COOL" looking ! The huge size of the engines would "Dwarf" the operators.
Dont let a feew of the above posts scare you if you wanna unhook your VRO. I dont have any advice about keeping your VRO or not but I can say that mixing your oil manually is a piece of cake. You get wide mouth mixing bottle that is marked in gallons of gas at 50 to one or whatever ratio you want and you fill it to the line marked 20 or 25 or 30 gallons etc. No mistakes or guessing. In fact i would bet its much more accurate than the vro. From the time you pick up your oil and mixing bottle it takes around 45 seconds to a minute or so to fill the bottle to the proper line and pour it in your tank. BFD. I dont have a choice with my motors or I would probably have a vro but if you are thinking about removing yours for whatever reason dont be afraid of mixing it manually.
Don't forget that the V in VRO stands for variable, and I feel like we use noticably less oil with the VRO than with the previous engine we had that required premixing....
ON "VRO" does the pump keep up 100% with engine RPM ? When you you come down fast on the throttle (or go up) does it keep up with the engine, or is there a bit af "LAG" ? I wonder why they did'nt make a mechanical oil pump like on our cars, not exactly a "HIGH TECH" thing, I guess the diaphram application saves wt. and space, I use the "Mixing Cup" (as mentioned above), one thing I learned NOT to do was "add a little more oil to the mix" making it a bit richer, thinking more protection is added. This creates hot spots on the piston (not good), if you are going to mix by hand, get the measuring cup from the boat store, make the fuel mix as if you were working in a lab as a chemist, Exactly on the mark. There is some minor tolerance on the mix but, try to be as accurate as you can, like I said, this is easy with only 6 gals to mix, if I had a huge fuel tank/Engine, I might consider the VRO but, for the "Little Piddler" 50 H.P. I'm O.K., Remember to use that "Carbon Guard" or "Ring Free" fuel additive, as the fuel quality is EXTREMELY poor right now, check with ANY outboard shop on how many motor's they have in there with fuel related problems, I gaurantee at least an "Eye roll" from the mechanics. Try what I did, take a small jar and fill it 1/2 way with any common pump fuel, leave it over night, or a day or two, then look at the fuel, you'll be able to clearly see "Water, fuel, and alcohol seperate, don't forget that "Alcohol" (now added to fuel) is "Hydroscopic" (attracts water), Scotch and soda is NOT what I mean by this, although I used to drink that.
mw
