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does anyone have their engines rebuilt ?
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| rfuerst911sc |
Posted on 08/17/13 - 4:12 AM
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This is just a conversation question I am not in need of this service but recent posts on folks spending $12,000.00 - $15,000.00 for a new outboard got me thinking why not rebuild what you already have ? Yes I know you don't get the latest EFI technology, ignition or anything else but I have to assume ( maybe incorrectly ) that a quality rebuild would be much less expensive. Thoughts ?
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| wannabe |
Posted on 08/17/13 - 6:03 AM
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Rebuilding could be one third the cost of a new outboard and still have a lot of the older components such as the lower unit and trim unit. Then there is the newer efficient outboards with great economy. I still hope my 1988 Yamaha lasts forever!
Drew
1988 Outrage 18 - 1988 Yamaha 130 hp |
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| Jay Fitz |
Posted on 08/17/13 - 7:52 AM
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For some reason, not based on any facts...I've always stayed away from re-builds as far as purchasing. Whenever I look at a Whaler that has a rebuilt motor, I just move right along. I guess because you never know what's really been done and if the quality of the work was good? Not really sure why, but re-builds have always been a red flag for me.
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| jbrc124racing |
Posted on 08/17/13 - 9:03 AM
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My 40 horse evinrude 2 stroke was rebuilt before I bought it and has a new engine block
13ft custom center console with rear casting deck and 40 horse 2 stroke |
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| jbrc124racing |
Posted on 08/17/13 - 9:06 AM
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And it runs perfectly with no problems
13ft custom center console with rear casting deck and 40 horse 2 stroke |
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| wing15601 |
Posted on 08/17/13 - 9:47 AM
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I had a 1984 Yamaha 90 which ran in salt water for 29 years. It was rebuilt with a new, power head in 2009. If it weren't for the salt water corrosion I would still have it. Had it spent it's life in fresh water it would probably have lasted another ten years and in fact was running fine when I repowered this year. On the other hand, my new E-TEC 90 uses so little fuel I'm glad I made the change. But if your mechanic is competent, I say go for the rebuild. You can buy a lot of gas with the 8 grand you save.
I winter in Ft. Myers and summer in St. Joseph, Michigan. It’s now about 12 years since I’ve joined this group. I gave my 1972 whaler to my daughter and sold the 17’. Bought an O’Day 28 sailboat and sailed on Lake Michigan. Yesterday I bought a 2005 130 Sport. |
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| mtown |
Posted on 08/17/13 - 10:52 AM
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Agree with what wing says. One factor you want to consider is why does it need to be re-built? I had a 115 2-stroke Yamaha 1985 with very low hours on it and it needed the rings and pistons done. Had it done for $1500 [15 years ago] and the mechanic did a good job on that part. What I did not realize was the remote oil tank had hairline cracks in it. Rainwater would get in the tank, sink to the bottom, and the pick-up would transfer it to the small tank under the cowl. That tank was gravity to the fuel pump/mix point. So I was burning a gas water mix instead of gas oil. Torched the pistons a second time and decided to go 4-stroke. You should also look at all other component parts that may be expensive. My 70hp Yamaha 1985 was still running great but the rod that facilitates shifting was almost corroded thru. My mechanic told me it would require complete dissasembly of the motor to replace it.
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| blacksmithdog |
Posted on 08/18/13 - 3:20 AM
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I'm serious when I say this, I'm not sure there's anyone around where I live that I would trust rebuilding a boat motor.
I was badly ripped off about 15-20 years ago with an issue I was having with a Merc. The boat dealer rebuilt it for more money than I really had. He didn't fix it, and it turned out to be an extremely minor issue (the part to fix it was $1.50).
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/18/13 - 8:42 AM
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I always fall back on that old saying, If you want it done right then do it yourself.
Since I don't have the tools or know how to completely rebuild an outboard motor myself and have very little trust that some dealer mechanic would ever do it right at a reasonable cost, I would never entertain such an adventure.
I ran a big Honda, Kawasaki and KTM Motorcycle and ATV shop for a while and can tell you from experience the vast majority of those who call themselves mechanics are little more than parts changers. It is very rare to find a real and very knowledgeable outboard motor mechanic who is not in such high demand that he would have the time to do such a procedure and to do it right. Few places would even be willing to pay such a mechanic what he is worth and if they did the hourly rate would be through the roof.
We have a local shop that specializes in auto and truck engine rebuilding and they are highly respected but will not touch an outboard motor.
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| jack12 |
Posted on 08/18/13 - 5:57 PM
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I was told by a recommended marine engine mechanic that in his view it is not worth rebuilding an engine since it costs 3-4K but is still worth a few hundred. I assume this is because its reliability isn't very predictable. How long would a rebuilt engine likely last?
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/19/13 - 5:33 AM
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If you have a low hours and relatively newer motor and know exactly what caused it to blow it is still shooting craps. There are so many variables and so many questions needing absolute answers that it becomes a very hard decision.
I have seen engines still under warranty get new power heads due to some warranted failure. If that repair was out of pocket and not a warranty repair I am sure the owner would not have done it. That motor is still running perfectly after about four seasons but this is an exception in my opinion. It was a 300 HP Merc and one of a pair.
I think in most catastrophic failures you will be throwing good money after bad and it is likely time to cut your losses and run. Parting out usable items should certainly bring more than a few hundred on otherwise decent condition but blown motors.
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| wing15601 |
Posted on 08/19/13 - 7:37 AM
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There are businesses out there ( you can Google rebuilt outboard motors) who will sell you a rebuilt motor with a one year warranty. I don't know much about any of them but it is an alternative you could investigate.
I winter in Ft. Myers and summer in St. Joseph, Michigan. It’s now about 12 years since I’ve joined this group. I gave my 1972 whaler to my daughter and sold the 17’. Bought an O’Day 28 sailboat and sailed on Lake Michigan. Yesterday I bought a 2005 130 Sport. |
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| rvschulz |
Posted on 08/19/13 - 10:40 AM
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I just went through this thought process - 1985 Johnson 90 VRO. in 1999 the powerhead was replaced with a new powerhead. previous owner kept it in the water and lower unit submerged ... not smartest thing in the world.
I bought the boat motor trailer cheap and motor had intermittent issues. I put about $400 into it and it ran 'ok' which according to my mechanic (very trusted) was how this motor ran.
earlier this year it gave me another little minor issue. that compounded with some serious additional range I wanted prompted me to get a new motor. night and day with technology advancement. but, I understand when someone says 'it costs too much'. if that were my case - i'd get out of the boating/fishing hobby.
points to ponder ... if I HAD to = I would have found another NEW powerhead and suffered the 2.5mpg rather than the 5-6mpg I get now.
1987 Montauk 17, 2013 Etec 115 |
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| jamesgt727 |
Posted on 08/22/13 - 12:19 PM
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Two miles down the street from me is a place that all they do is sell complete powerheads, and I think you can get a core credit. its called www.marinerebuilds.com they are well respected in my area, but I have never purchased one. When I checked on my 3-cyl merc, I think it was in the $2K range. The place is fairly large shop, and they move a lot of volume, so it probably happens more than most think.
Edited by jamesgt727 on 08/22/13 - 12:22 PM |
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| donp |
Posted on 08/22/13 - 1:07 PM
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What’s your meaning of rebuild? Power head only? If not, that could be a long list.
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| Gmondun |
Posted on 08/22/13 - 2:21 PM
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Older engines can be re-built perfectly without spending 10-15K on a new motor.
http://www.maxrules.com/
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| firebrand1 |
Posted on 08/24/13 - 5:36 AM
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Back in the late 1990s, I had an issue with my 1986 Johnson 90hp: the splines on the end of the driveshaft that runs from the powerhead to the lower unit had worn off. The crime is that the unit ran superbly but couldn't spin the shaft or prop. So I called my trusted service adviser at a major Lake Winnepesauke boat yard (not named a marina, but a boat YARD) and he recommended a replacement powerhead as the simplest and most direct way to fix the issue. I dropped about $2K into it and swapped it out myself and reused my existing carbs, starter, electrics, and so on. The job took me about two days as I found out exactly what was going from here to there but overall was not that challenging. I had the tools and a place to do the work out of the weather so I took the challenge on. Please note that I had already replaced a failed VRO pump so this was not the first foray into outboard service work. I also handle all my own winterization for four (4) different outboards from 15hp up to 150hp.
I say do the math and see what works for you now and over a period of years' use.
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| Angry Norsk |
Posted on 09/03/13 - 6:08 PM
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wannabe wrote:
Rebuilding could be one third the cost of a new outboard and still have a lot of the older components such as the lower unit and trim unit. Then there is the newer efficient outboards with great economy. I still hope my 1988 Yamaha lasts forever!
I couldn't agree more! I have a 1986 Yamaha 115 that runs like a top, smokes like a chimney on startup and likes its gas, but once warmed up purrs like a kitten. 39 MPH on a 19 Starcraft bowrider...original equipment on the boat. Only downside is the previous owner moored it all summer long in salt water which has taken its toll on the tilt trim unit. blah blah blah!
As for a rebuild, I have rebuilt a few smaller outboards that I picked up for cheap because previous owners failures in maintenance. Parts are reasonably availble, and doner outboards are plentiful on craigslist or ebay, but I would definately shy away from more modern V-4s and V-6s unless you new what you're doing and have the proper test and diagnostic equipment. Just go to other forums and look at the particular engine diagnostic advice the "trained mechs" are giving out. That should be enough indication whether to pass on a rebuild. Good garage project if your detail oriented and/or stubborn!
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| butchdavis |
Posted on 09/04/13 - 6:34 AM
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There are "rebuilds" and there are "overhauls". They words are, incorrectly, used interchangeably.
An engine that has been rebuilt will have virtually every friction surface replaced or resurfaced to an as new finish. Cylinders will be bored and pistons replaced with oversized units. Rods, as an example, will be carefully measured for stretch and replaced if stretched. An overhaul will only require replacement of such things as rings and lower end bearings. Pistons are not replaced and cylinders are not bored if they are within specs. Crankshafts will not be ground or polished unless damaged.
For me the bottom line is that if you are having a rebuild or overhaul done in order to continue to use your engine and you know and trust the shop go for it. If you are buying an engine because it has been rebuilt or overhauled be very careful and verify the work done. Personally I would want to see the invoices for the work. Even with the invoices I would be very careful and would not pay a premium price for the engine. I would simply consider it to be a used engine of a certain age and pay accordingly.
Let me add that my post only addresses old tech two stroke engines.
Butch |
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