1. Use the full 4 digit year for everything you are asking your question about. Example: 1962, 1988, 2000, 2011
2. Include the correct name of your Whaler model. Example: Montauk 17, Montauk 170, Outrage 26, Outrage 260
3. Include the length when necessary. Example: 16, 17, 18, 20, 22
4. Do not post your email address anywhere on this site as it is already in your user profile.

varnish to teak oil
duf	#1  Posted on 07/02/13 - 4:32 PM
Member Personal Page Photo Albums Posts: 840 Comments: 9 Joined: 04/22/07	About a year and 1/2 ago I purchased a 88 outrage with whaler drive. Although it had no bottom paint (a must) it had excellent condition teak wood throughout, however coma, all the teak had been varnished. Some of the pieces had faded, and even peeling varnish, so the worst of them, I sanded, and refinished with varnish. I have to admit it looks good, but to get that look, I had to sand pretty far down into the teak. Lots of teak dust. There was a thread long ago, way before I got my 25, but was interesting. It discussed at length, once you go varnish, you can never return to teak oil. Reason was, the varnish soaks into the wood, and you can never get it out, to the point, the teak oil will soak into the wood. That said, that was some years back, and now I have the same situation. I'm about to re-do all the teak pieces, and I really hate to apply varnish on them again, simply because I prefer the teak look, non shiny, and I really hate sanding it so much to make it look right. So, question I have is, anyone know I can undo this and go back to teak oil? Thanks Duf
Finnegan	#2  Posted on 07/02/13 - 6:10 PM
Member Posts: 1926 Comments: 16 Joined: 05/02/08	Duf - Yes you can. Simply use stipper to remove the old varnish, then sand down to new wood. My experience is that the varnish does not penetrate the teak surface at all. As you know, I do like my teak varnished, and find it much less work overall. But my Outrage 25 center stern locker cover needed to be redone, and I stripped off 12 coats all the way down to bare wood, and re-sanded. It looked like brand new wood, and I had even stained before varnishing. I could have easily oiled instead of re-varnishing. One of my gunwales is in for the same job sometime soon.
Jay Fitz	#3  Posted on 07/02/13 - 8:25 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 343 Comments: 0 Joined: 09/08/10	Take a look at this stuff, I've used it on many projects, works great. http://www.starten.com/
Gamalot	#4  Posted on 07/03/13 - 5:21 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1086 Comments: 3 Joined: 06/21/10	I have had varying degrees of success going from varnished Teak to oil. If the varnish coat was done properly and thinned before application it is likely that it did penetrate the wood deeper and would then be a much harder process to remove. In most cases, the varnish was probably applied direct from the can and goes on the Teak as a top coat that does not penetrate very deep at all and also has a tendency to peel or flake over time. Teak wood in itself is an oily wood that does not lend itself to penetrating compounds unless they are thinned. Even the first few coats of Teak oil could benefit from thinning according to the manufactures directions. I find Teak very easy to care for and re coat with oil as long as it is a stand alone piece such as a hatch or RPS seat back that is not bolted or fastened directly to fiberglass. It is a bit more time consuming to re coat when care must be taken to avoid staining of surrounding glass finishes. Chemical strippers must be used with caution if you cannot remove the wood.
Windknotz	#5  Posted on 07/03/13 - 11:25 AM
Member Posts: 9 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/28/12	I Have recently begun a full resto/mod on a 1988 Montauk. The teak had been baking in the Florida Keys sun for many years, and the varnish was cracked and peeling. I removed all of the wood and used a product called Citrustrip from Lowes. It worked very well on the thin or peeling areas, and the thicker parts required a second coat. I still had to use a brush in the corners, but overall I was very satisfied with the results. I then wet the stripped wood to raise the grain, allowed it to dry, and just sanded until I was satisfied. I applied 4 coats of teak oil over 4 days and couldn't be happier with the results. I also liked the fact that Citrustrip was not like using strong caustic chemicals.
duf	#6  Posted on 07/03/13 - 2:01 PM
Member Personal Page Photo Albums Posts: 840 Comments: 9 Joined: 04/22/07	Guys, thanks for the info, i'll give it a shot this weekend with one of the worst pieces. Finnegan, did you remove 12 coats of varnish with one application of stripper, or did it take several applications? Curious as well, which stripper do you use? I have to agree, the varnish does look very nice, but really liked the stock teak oil look. Thanks again all Duf
jvz	#7  Posted on 07/03/13 - 8:42 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 215 Comments: 10 Joined: 03/16/07	Hey Duf - You know im a Varnish guy - Of course you can... if you don't want to use stripper's, which can be very messy and require rubber gloves. You can carefully use a heat gun and a scraper (or a 5 in 1 scaper tool) Once the old varnish is removed, start sanding with 80 grit and work you way up to 320, until it's smooth as glass, and no raised grain. I know you don't want to sand,... - but it's all about the prep! The best way to acheive a beautiful finish. Then slowly and evenly apply your coats of teak oil - We used to use "Circa 1850 Marine Teak Oil"
Finnegan	#8  Posted on 07/04/13 - 12:51 AM
Member Posts: 1926 Comments: 16 Joined: 05/02/08	Duf - To remove the many coats of Flagship varnish, I probably needed two or three, or even four applications, each followed by scraping. I used the generic stuff from Ace, kind of jelly consistency, applied by brush. All teak oils have some percentage of varnish in them, the highest being Daly's SeaFin which is about 15% varnish. I always used Amazon's teak oil, a premium grade but still found it didn't last very long in Florida's tropical salt environment.
duf	#9  Posted on 07/04/13 - 6:28 AM
Member Personal Page Photo Albums Posts: 840 Comments: 9 Joined: 04/22/07	Appreciate the info jvz. Yeah, i know you love your varnish, and my main concern was the amount of sanding i was doing. Not being a "varnish guy" am kind of new to having that kind of finish on my boat. Actually, almost all of the detailed kind of woodwork i've done, was because of being a 80's vintage Whaler owner. Reworked the teak, doors etc on both my prior 80's 22 CC. When you and your lady friend coming down this way again? Doors open anytime your up for a weekend. And yes, i'll make my baked beans. :) Finnegan, same here. South Texas sun and humidity are brutal on finishes here. However the idea of stripping and very minor sanding is very appealing and reduces my concern of oversanding for a nice finish. I guess the best thing to do is try out some of my worst for wear pieces and see how it goes. I have some 16 - 18 pieces to choose from, so selection is not an issue to try some of the differnent stripper mentioned in this thread. Also, no problem with something to do when i retire! Again, thanks all! Duf
Tom W Clark	#10  Posted on 07/04/13 - 6:39 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	Daly's SeaFin which is about 15% varnish. Larry -- Could you explain how you magically come up with this sort of information?
jvz	#11  Posted on 07/04/13 - 10:18 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 215 Comments: 10 Joined: 03/16/07	Duf - See you this summer for sure, we will give you heads up.Alex says hi! You have a perfect dock/deck to work on your wood work - enjoy it! We just launched on Texoma last night - Glassy & perfect! Heading to the slip now. Happy 4th!
kamie	#12  Posted on 07/04/13 - 11:00 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	just so everyone isn't fooled, Teak Oil really isn't teak oil but either tung oil (oil pressed from tung nuts) or Linseed oil (oil pressed from the seeds of the flax plan) mixed with solvents, or varnish. For water resistance, tung oil based is better than linseed oil based mixes because the base oil has better water resistant properties. Amazon Teak Oil is a mix of castor oil and mineral oil while both are great food based oils they don't have the water resistance of either tung oil or linseed oil.
Finnegan	#13  Posted on 07/04/13 - 11:04 AM
Member Posts: 1926 Comments: 16 Joined: 05/02/08	Tom - I read it a yachting magazine that did some testing of the various brands of teak oil, because as you know I used to oil my teak before I figured out what a time consuming job it was to keep it looking good. Endless cleaning, sanding and oiling. I can't give the reference since it was several years ago. You can believe me, or ignore me. The article indicated, as I mentioned, that ALL teak oils have some amount of varnish in them, and that Daly's was the highest at 15%. Actually, I was surprised at this number, but that is why it holds up pretty well. They found the more varnish content, the longer the "oil" held up. Pure oil product did not work well at all. The varnish is why excess teak oil sticks and dries on surrounding gelcoat with a yellow stain. Pure oil would wipe right off. Single step teak cleaners do a great job of removing varnish. They have to! I soak SS fasteners in teak cleaner to get rid of teak oil and varnish residue that gets on them. I also use it to remove dried varnish drips on the fiberglass when I discover them. Teak oil is not like food. The manufacturers don't have to list 100% of the formula. They can tell you whatever they want to, including all the wonderful oils it contains. They just forget about the varnish. This is also the reason they tell you to wipe on, then wipe off ten minutes later. That eliminates any varnish sheen. Once I applied Amazons Blend 55 teak oil, and forgot to wipe it off. Sure enough, the dried surface had a slight gloss to it from the varnish content..
PB88	#14  Posted on 09/10/13 - 8:36 AM
Member Posts: 6 Comments: 0 Joined: 04/20/05	Don't let sanding or applying marine finish coats get you down - get the right tools, understand the process and pick the right day (humidity, temp and environment) it's no big deal. Having spent considerable time in my life with marine finishes, oils, spar varnish and epoxy let me share some observations and experiences mostly with white water wooden boats in Pacific NW. - marine oils are incredible for what we used to call "workboat finish". There is a long list of commercial products including Watco Marine Teak which back when I was involved worked just fine and not to spendy. We also made our own formulation(s) with linseed oil and some solvent or combo of solvents as base - mineral spirits or turpentine. The old school painter's base coat for oil based paint was linseed and turpentine. Sometimes we'd try adding pine tar and spar varnish. Without scientific test protocol it seemed adding varnish enhanced longevity. We're talking boats used hard on coastal streams and high desert rivers like the Deschutes - hot, direct sun but low humidity. Variable was it was so easy to scrub out an oiled interior and reapply oil that, well, we just did it. This said, we used to tell customers if you want a simple, durable finish apply marine oil. Marine oils (with linseed oil base) actually oxidize to a "hard"finish over time; with consecutive coats you get a slightly resiny finish that soaks into the wood. There is a saturation point with most wood (marine ply for sure) where you see areas of the panel where oil does not permeate the wood and kinda pools up. It's the oxidizing reaction that creates heat that burns down buildings sometimes causing trash can fires when oil soaked rags are not disposed of properly - a St Vincent's DePaul building burned in my home town because staff refinishing furniture threw oil soaked rags into trash. The reaction continued, hot enough to start other trash on fire and kaboom. When finished with rags we lay them out flat, outdoors in the sun until they "dry" out or put them in a bucket of water. Oiled wood makes an excellent base for spar varnish or oil base paint - outstanding now or years later. Therefore, our recommendations were if you oil your boat (or parts of it) and someday you want a bright finish you can always scrub it up and apply high quality marine spar varnish, perhaps even applying another light coat of oil (allowing enough time for oil to cure - oxidize prior to varnish coats). Never ever had a finish failure using this method. However, once you decide to apply marine oil you cannot ever have confidence that you can ever, years later, do marine epoxy base coats - certainly not with fresh oiled wood. So decision point was 1) marine oil finish 2) marine oil base coat with spar varnish or marine paint finish coats 3) marine epoxy base coats, possibly 4 oz cloth layer followed by a couple coats of epoxy then spar varnish or marine paint finish coats totally necessary to protect epoxy from UV. The other issue is choosing proper application tools, brushes, foam rollers etc and clean up tools - brush combs and spinner. It's important to accurately assess what you have when deciding plan of attack to determine if you really need to strip to bare wood or simply prep the wood and apply fresh finish coats. (see below) I find even with knarly looking wood, scrubbing and sanding is all that's needed most of the time - in large part because of the high quality of marine teak and mahogany Whaler used on our boats. The project I'm about to start I plan to use power sanders to prep the wood surface with some fairing through that process. I see no reason to strip because finish is pretty much intact. There are couple of spots I will oil prior to spar varnishing. Your hand is your QA inspection tool, smooth is the order of the day. One tool that is incredibly important is a Cabinet Maker's scraper - I usually run a sharp scraper over the object to knock down the high spots (finish -and maybe some wood) prior to sanding. IMPORTANT - when finish coats are curing, you will likely see runs and sags. During curing you need to brush (tip off technique) our those sags and runs constantly checking - you will get to a point where finish is too sticky. If you see run or sag in cured varnish - use scraper to reduce them NOT sandpaper. Scrape them away, scuff sand the area. It's almost impossible to sand out a run or sag in cured finish. Sanding seems to be the dreaded part of the whole thing and it's not if you understand what you're trying to accomplish and how to choose the right abrasives and power sanders. Stripping sucks for sure - but done right it goes fast as long as you make certain you take the time to scrub the stripped wood thoroughly with solvents, brushes, steel wool using copious amounts of solvent (lacquer thinner, acetone) and a bundle of painter's rags to get the wood grain super clean. Obviously respirator and gloves are essential. Once finish coats are on (a few coats of good spar varnish) maintenance is really simple - once finished surface loses 50% of original gloss, scrub it up (soap and water - whatever), let it dry real good, scuff sand, remove the dust and apply a coat or two (sanding between - Simple) of new finish. Botta boom botta bing - I'm getting ready to do that right now to some Whaler wood from Harpoon and my anchor locker cover on 77 13. If finish is still nice but dull, I scuff sand by hand using 120-150 commercial paper (maybe 220) just to rough up the surface really. That anchor locker cover can be done in 5 minutes. I might use some mineral spirits and rags to clean before applying varnish. I don't expect to apply more than two coats - if first coat is smooth, no bugs - that's it but I usually go two, maybe three if I'm jammin. The wood off my Harpoon 4.6 is in great shape, finish intact, poorly applied by previous owner. My plan is power sander (vibrator or maybe random orbit) to fair up the funny spots and if smooth I'll apply two or three coats of spar varnish. That's it - 5-8 years maybe more. When using random orbits (I have three) understand they are very aggressive and sometimes hard to control- - I use finer paper. My understanding is original paint was linseed based (maybe tung) with pigments added - varnish was same with resins added. I've also heard the original paint used for the Golden Gate Bridge was "lead-based paint which was 68% red lead paste in a linseed oil carrier" red color
Whalerbob	#15  Posted on 10/14/13 - 5:34 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 311 Comments: 0 Joined: 12/07/06	I've been very happy with Sikkens Cetol in natural finish. I keep my boat in my garage but only need to apply a thin coat every year or two to keep it looking good. I think the last application lasted 8 years or so and it was fairly easy to strip down. http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com...4AodylsAkQ http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w...2ac664.jpg
duf	#16  Posted on 10/15/13 - 10:14 AM
Member Personal Page Photo Albums Posts: 840 Comments: 9 Joined: 04/22/07	Excellent post PB88, appreciate the time you put into it. duf
Jupe209	#17  Posted on 12/07/13 - 6:33 AM
Member Posts: 3 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/26/13	This is also a very good product. Cabot Australian Timber Oil. A little pricey, but a fine finish that lasts.I used Honey Teak on my Montauk.
WRufus	#18  Posted on 01/07/14 - 6:22 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 73 Comments: 1 Joined: 01/15/13	Has anyone used Cetol Marine Gloss Clear coat on its own? (As opposed to it being used as a top coat over another cetol finish). Im just curious if it could be used as a stand alone product and be an alternative to varnish. 1989 Montauk 17' w/ F70 Yamaha