|
Neutral Start/Safety Switch
|
| brorobin |
Posted on 03/16/13 - 1:57 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 206
Comments:
0
Joined: 07/11/09
|
If the neutral start/safety switch is faulty will the engine still turn over and spin but with no spark to plugs? Or will it prevent the motor from turning over with no power at all to starter?
1994 25hp Merc. with electric start and remote (non tiller). Motor has sat up for about 2 years during restore. I pulled the carb and cleaned all, fresh fuel, changed fuel lines on motor. Tried to crank and I'm getting no fire to spark plugs.
Robin Chaplin
1972 13 Sport - 1994 25hp Mercury
It was my Dad's, now it's Mine, one day I'll pass it down, 'til then it's Happy Whalering. |
| |
|
|
| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 03/16/13 - 2:01 PM
|
Site Owner
Personal Page
Personal Album
Photo Albums
Project Albums
Posts: 11447
Comments:
452
Joined: 03/18/05
|
I don't believe it is supposed to crank if it is IN gear.
If yours is cranking, then something else is wrong.
Do you have the Safety Lanyard plugged in? Also known as man-over-board lanyard.
|
| |
|
|
| Finnegan |
Posted on 03/16/13 - 2:31 PM
|
Member
Posts: 1926
Comments:
16
Joined: 05/02/08
|
If the engine will crank in neutral, but NOT crank in gear, the start-in-gear neutral safety switch is good and operating properly. Spark to the plugs is not related to this item.
On my Mercs, if the KILL SWITCH is on (activated), the engine will still turn over, but will NOT have spark to the plugs and will not start or keep running.
If neither of these conditions applies to your situation, you have some other problem with the engine. Be sure it is actually getting fuel.
|
| |
|
|
| Bake |
Posted on 03/17/13 - 12:06 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Project Albums
Posts: 902
Comments:
8
Joined: 01/30/06
|
do you have a kill switch. that sounds more likely than the neutral safety switch. I believe most motors will not spin the starter in gear but will spin if the kill switch is pulled. But I am not sure about that.
|
| |
|
|
| brorobin |
Posted on 03/17/13 - 2:53 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 206
Comments:
0
Joined: 07/11/09
|
Thanks for the replies.
It is not the neutral safety switch. When I tried to start the motor in gear there was no power to the motor at all.
Both kill switches (the one on the lanyard at the remote control and the one at the motor)are in the run position, but I still have no fire to the spark plug wires. I stuck screwdriver in the plug boot and held it at/near the engine block and no fire at all in either plug wire.
Should I assume the coil pack and how would I test it.
Joe, If I need to abandon this thread and start a new one with this topic let me know.
Robin Chaplin
1972 13 Sport - 1994 25hp Mercury
It was my Dad's, now it's Mine, one day I'll pass it down, 'til then it's Happy Whalering. |
| |
|
|
| Bake |
Posted on 03/17/13 - 3:44 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Project Albums
Posts: 902
Comments:
8
Joined: 01/30/06
|
Even though the kill switch is in the run position do you have fire across the switch. If you do I would thinik you are looking at power pack.
|
| |
|
|
| brorobin |
Posted on 03/18/13 - 9:19 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 206
Comments:
0
Joined: 07/11/09
|
Bake wrote:
Even though the kill switch is in the run position do you have fire across the switch. If you do I would thinik you are looking at power pack.
The kill switch at the engine is not connected at all. I assume if this were a tiller controlled motor it would be connected. The kill/lanyard switch at the remote has continuity tone using multimeter in the "off" position and no tone in the run position. So I assume that the switch is designed to "run" in open position and kill the motor in the closed position (grounded).
Where do I go from here to find why I have no spark at all at either cylinder.
In my Mercury/Mariner service manual I do not see a "power pack" listed. I see a "switch box" listed, actually two components with different part numbers both called "switch box". And then there are the two "ignition coil assembly" components.
I don't want to start replacing parts without knowing if they are defective. How can I diagnose the problem.
Robin Chaplin
1972 13 Sport - 1994 25hp Mercury
It was my Dad's, now it's Mine, one day I'll pass it down, 'til then it's Happy Whalering. |
| |
|
|
| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 03/18/13 - 9:41 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 4280
Comments:
7
Joined: 09/30/05
|
The kill switch at the engine is not connected at all. I assume if this were a tiller controlled motor it would be connected.
I would not make that assumption. What does your Service Manual say on this topic?
I suspect the odds are greatly in favor of this problem having to do with the kill switch circuit and not anything else.
|
| |
|
|
| Derwd24 |
Posted on 03/18/13 - 10:13 AM
|
Member
Posts: 1607
Comments:
9
Joined: 05/09/07
|
I can't speak directly to Mercury, but on that era OMC engine, there's a black/yellow wire (and from what I can tell I think it may be the same colors for Merc?) that comes from the power pack(s) and kills the engine when grounded (Eg. when the key is turned to the off position, or the safety lanyard is removed from the switch, this wire gets connected to ground which stops the engine).
It sounds like the lanyard switch is working properly from your continuity test. What are the colors of the wires that run to that switch?
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
| |
|
|
| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 03/18/13 - 10:34 AM
|
Site Owner
Personal Page
Personal Album
Photo Albums
Project Albums
Posts: 11447
Comments:
452
Joined: 03/18/05
|
On OMC, and probably most other key switches, the switch grounds the "M" and "M" terminal when the switch is in the OFF position.
See this diagram at the top left.
http://www.whalercentral.com/images/a...wiring.jpg
The Neutral Safety Switch is another circuit.
The yellow w/red wire runs to the Neutral Safety Switch.
The engine should not crank when in gear.
The Safety Lanyard is also basically another circuit.
Black w/yellow wire
When the lanyard is pulled, this grounds the magneto which kills the engine.
The engine will crank with the lanyard pulled but should not start. (older model OMC motors) In 1996, this system changed slightly and could be started without the lanyard in place after it being pulled out.
|
| |
|
|
| Bake |
Posted on 03/18/13 - 12:37 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Project Albums
Posts: 902
Comments:
8
Joined: 01/30/06
|
When I used the term power pack I used it as a catch all name. Control Box/ power pack What ever your year and model motor used to control spark. I think you should run the motor by a shop about now. Let him tell you what the problem is. I would not just start buying electrical components as that can get expensive very fast.
|
| |
|
|
| brorobin |
Posted on 03/18/13 - 2:38 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 206
Comments:
0
Joined: 07/11/09
|
I spoke to the chief mechanic at one of our local shops. He gave me a tip to try that would finally rule out the kill switch. Disconnect the black wire with the yellow tracer on the side of the power pack that handles the "kill" from the lanyard and the off position on the key switch. If I had fire to the spark plug wires then the problem was in the kill switch or wiring harness. I followed his instructions and still no fire. He had said if I still had no fire to the plug wires the problem is either: power pack, trigger switch under fly wheel, or charging coils. However to diagnose or test these components I would need a DVA (direct voltage adapter) which I do not have.
Boat is at the shop, they were closing when I got it there this afternoon. I'll hear from them in the morning with an estimate.
BTW the mechanic seems to be a great guy, older with experience and a willingness to help. Not sure about the service writer, he may only be interested in $$$$. I'll let ya'll know how I come out. Hopefully I will not need to take out a second mortgage to pay the bill.
As side note, when I drove into the shop parking lot and started inside to speak to the mechanic, two guys who had dropped by to pick up their boats walked around my little whaler and "OOed and AWed" with big smiles and said, "that is one heck of a boat", and "a real classic".
Yeah, made me feel good I must say. My 19 year old son said, "Dad, those guys with the big bass boats were real impressed with our Whaler". That made me feel even better.
Edited by brorobin on 03/18/13 - 3:04 PM
Robin Chaplin
1972 13 Sport - 1994 25hp Mercury
It was my Dad's, now it's Mine, one day I'll pass it down, 'til then it's Happy Whalering. |
| |
|
|
| brorobin |
Posted on 03/19/13 - 7:44 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 206
Comments:
0
Joined: 07/11/09
|
YEP, Power Pack was Dead. Got it replaced today by local marine repair shop.
To diagnose the problem and do the repair the bill was as follows:
Part # 7452A19 Switch Box Assembly- $204.95
Labor $85.00
Shop Supplies $5.10
Tax $14.70
Total - $309.75
Does this sound fair, I have not had to hire out any work before. But considering I could not do the testing without the proper equipment, it seemed better than replacing parts by guessing.
Robin Chaplin
1972 13 Sport - 1994 25hp Mercury
It was my Dad's, now it's Mine, one day I'll pass it down, 'til then it's Happy Whalering. |
| |
|
|
| Bake |
Posted on 03/20/13 - 3:36 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Project Albums
Posts: 902
Comments:
8
Joined: 01/30/06
|
Three hundred and change not to shabby. I too hate to pay for Work that is so easy to. In your case I suspected power pack. Would I have taken the 204.95 gamble to replace it in the yard, Heck no.
|
| |
|
