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Trim control quit today
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| tothemax |
Posted on 09/02/12 - 3:45 PM
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This morning the trim control in our 1987 Evinrude 150 quit. I did some testing and t-shooting and it appears that the trim switch in the handle is working (using a test light I had hot in each direction using the switch - both at the handle and at the solenoid block).
I did a search and found this post: http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...post_99155
I've got green and blue wires going to a from the solenoid block - it is the style that has the two small relays smilar to a car windshield wiper relay. They looked like they had been melted down at the plug or they put some kind of goop in them.
The switch in the handle has been sticking in the down position but we have been trying to watch it.
My question is on how the system works, we bough the shop manual but one issue is that it's a reprint and all the schematics are in B&W. I don't see any electric valves so I get the feeling that the pump reverses for up or down movement - but can't find a good explanation.
I'd like to be able to direct wire the pump to see if it is working - are the green and blue wires positive and negative to the pump and reverse via the relay? Until I get some info I don't want to make anything worse.
Any help would be appreciated,
Edited by tothemax on 09/02/12 - 3:46 PM
2005 Dauntless 220 |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/02/12 - 4:10 PM
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You need to read more of that same post you link to above.
http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...post_99103
There are 3 wires in the switch.
1. Red (positive 12 volts)
2. Green (down)
3. Blue (up)
There is no ground at the trim switch just like a there is no ground at the light switch on a boat.
If your switch is sticky, replace it with an original. They aren't that expensive.
Edited by Joe Kriz on 09/02/12 - 4:13 PM |
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| tothemax |
Posted on 09/02/12 - 4:38 PM
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The switch even though it is sticky still works - the issue that I'm not getting any power to the hydraulic pump. I was referring to a ground going to the hydraulic pump motor - per tha manual it's just the two wires blue and green.
Edited by tothemax on 09/02/12 - 4:39 PM
2005 Dauntless 220 |
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| tothemax |
Posted on 09/03/12 - 1:02 PM
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Tried to run the Trim motor directly, no luck doesn't even make a tiny arc. This is a 1987 Evinrude 150 and at this point I'm thinking that the 12v motor is fried - this boat sits so low in the water that I'll have to get the boat on the trailer to even check it out.
This is the console control I have - no visible model number - using a test light I have hot on the red at the control and both the small green and blue wires go hot when the switch is activated for up or down so all is good from the control (I have the upper part of the handle off and the outer trim control button).
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m...G_0989.jpg
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m...G_0988.jpg
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m...G_0985.jpg
This is the relay control box - without relays - wiring loose for testing, you can see the large blue and green going down to the connector which I guess goes to the 12v motor. The other wires must go to the trim indicator.
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m...G_0993.jpg
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m...G_0994.jpg
It's still hard to tell if the manufacturer uses some type of waterproof goop or these connectors got hot, It's all goopy where the wires go in but the connectors are not heat deformed, niether are the relays.
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m...G_0992.jpg
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m...G_0996.jpg
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m...G_0995.jpg
One thing I noticed is that this connector was unplugged, it's probably been unplugged as long as I've owned the boat anyone have any idea what it's for? I left it unplugged but have no idea if it was unplugged for a reason or missed by the last mechanic by accident. The trim gauge does not work, but the dash wiring has been butchered over the years so it could be anything.
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m...G_0991.jpg
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m...G_0990.jpg
Open for any ideas or suggestions...
2005 Dauntless 220 |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/03/12 - 1:05 PM
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Sounds like your trim motor is shot.
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| tothemax |
Posted on 09/03/12 - 2:04 PM
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Thanks Joe,
Any idea what that unplugged connector goes to... with the B&W schematics in the Johnson service manual it's really hard to make a call.
It seems like the old relays were working OK so I'll probably go back with the same, I've always liked the solenoid style setups in other 12v applications since they tend to carry amperage better.
2005 Dauntless 220 |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/03/12 - 2:09 PM
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Can you follow that wire and see where it leads to?
Follow the wires in both directions.
What color are the wires?
One looks tan and the other looks white. I can't see the 3rd wire color.
Do you have your oil tank disconnected?
Let us know where the wires go in both directions from where it is disconnected.
Edited by Joe Kriz on 09/03/12 - 2:42 PM |
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| tothemax |
Posted on 09/03/12 - 6:06 PM
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The oil tank is not on the boat, it has direct mix in the tank. I'll need to check next week when I get to work on the trim system.
Thanks for your input...
2005 Dauntless 220 |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/03/12 - 6:11 PM
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Those wires might be for the alarms on the Oil Tank.
Low Oil
No Oil
And that is why it is disconnected.
Mine only has one tan wire but yours may be different.
See the OMC warning horn testing:
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=9
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| tothemax |
Posted on 09/04/12 - 5:29 AM
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Thanks Joe,
Does anyone have any idea how I would find out what model Throttle \ Control unit I have? It doesn't match the Johnson Evinrude model. Teleflex doesn't seem to have any models that match. I'd like to replace the switch on this one so I don't burn out another trim motor.
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m...G_0989.jpg
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m...G_0988.jpg
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m...G_0985.jpg
I really appreciate the help here...
Edited by tothemax on 09/04/12 - 9:14 AM
2005 Dauntless 220 |
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| scoslv20 |
Posted on 09/04/12 - 10:46 AM
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The plug that you are wondering about goes to the VRO pump located under the starter. The other end goes to your alarm system. It is disconnected because you are not utilizing the oil mixing system. If you connect it you will get a no oil alarm. The shifter looks like it might have been made by Morse. Hope this helps.
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| tothemax |
Posted on 09/04/12 - 10:59 AM
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Grat, Thanks you...
I just sent an email to the Whaler \ Guardian service dept. to see if they have any records... worst case I can cut the switch off and go to an Johnson\Evinrude dealer and try to match it.
The pump motor and connector parts are all available and easily identifiable - the same 12v motor was used for multiple models for years. The OMC part is $145 and an after market brand sells for $110. For $35 it's probably worth going with OEM.
Update:
I did a search on Morse controls and the Seattle Marine and Fishing Supply catalog came up with a model number. I used to commercial fish out of Seattle, so it's funny all these years later getting back to them - got my first foulies there before leaving for Alaska on a Salmon boat. Anyway it's a Morse SL-3 and here is a link to a supplier. The trim switch kit is $8.00
http://www.go2marine.com/item/63342/s...09477.html
Edited by tothemax on 09/04/12 - 3:14 PM
2005 Dauntless 220 |
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| tothemax |
Posted on 09/10/12 - 3:28 PM
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Just following up on the Tilt/Trim repair if it will help anyone. 1987 Evinrude 150 (all 1987 150 models use the same trim motor)
1) Cause: The switch in the throttle handle was bad and would stick in the down position, it must have stuck in the down the relays were melted and motor was fried.
2) Getting the motor up is pretty easy there is a hydraulic bypass screw on the side of the tilt \ trim assy. accessed through a hold in the mount.
3) The whole tillt pump\cyl assy lifts out of the motor mount assy. Takes a little wiggling (after the tilt cyclander pin is out and wires disconnected).
4) Went with the Evinrude parts from a local dealer - only a few bucks more to deal with a human and have a local warranty location.
5) If you understand wiring and relay\solenoid operation it's fairly easy to T-shoot with a test light and a good manual.
6) Watch out for:
a: The service manual blow up doesn't clearly show that the 12v motor acts as the top of the reservior with a filter screen sandwiched between it and the pump.
b: The pump drive gear just sits in the pump house and is not all that easy to line up.
c: The pump bolt pattern is not symetrical - it only fits one way.
d: Last: the pump motor seals with a very thin O-ring - I used a light film of RTV around the flange and outside the O-ring. There are times when the base flange area of my motor is under water so I wanted a good seal.
Hope this is helpful - it took me about 2 hours to replace the pump and head back in the water (not including power washing and prep). Replacing the relay connectors and relays about 1/2 hour - and about the same to replace the throttle handle switch - it's soldered on. Parts were about $240.00.
Edited by tothemax on 09/10/12 - 3:30 PM
2005 Dauntless 220 |
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