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Best engine for a classic Outrage
arthureld	#1  Posted on 05/24/07 - 5:18 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 735 Comments: 7 Joined: 02/15/07	I'm shopping for a 22' classic Outrage. What are some of the best motors for it? What were the most common to originally come with a 80s 22' Outrage? I'd like to stay original. Is that a bad idea? I will probably use one main motor and a trolling motor so it would be cool if they matched.
Joe Kriz	#2  Posted on 05/24/07 - 9:46 AM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Arthur, Everyone has their own preference for brand of motors. During the 1980's, Yamaha, OMC, Mercury were the top 3 and probably still are... The most common single engine size used on the 22' was either a 200 hp or a 225 hp.... Today's choices are a little different due to 4 strokes and their weight as compared to some of the 2 strokes available. I had an Outrage 22' Cuddy with a 175 hp Johnson on it. Many people would think that it was underpowered however I felt it was plenty speedy doing just over 40 mph.... If I was going to repower the Cuddy, I would have put an E-Tec 200 hp on it.... The E-Tec 200 hp weighs 427 pounds. Moving up to the 225 hp would have meant 524 pounds on the back not including the kicker. I also use a kicker so the 200 hp plus a kicker would have weighted about the same as the E-Tec 225..... See this chart I put together for engine choices for the 22': http://www.whalercentral.com/readarti...icle_id=30 Andy Gere has a 22' Cuddy that he put a 200 hp E-Tec on it and he also has a kicker. He really likes the E-Tec from what he has posted before.
arthureld	#3  Posted on 05/25/07 - 6:20 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 735 Comments: 7 Joined: 02/15/07	Thanks for the info Joe. I don't know about the history of outboard motors so maybe someone can help me here. Were there any American made outboards in the 80s? After doing some searches, I am under the impression that there aren't any American made outboards now. Edited by arthureld on 05/25/07 - 9:28 AM
Jeff	#4  Posted on 05/25/07 - 5:45 PM
Member Posts: 1987 Comments: 34 Joined: 04/02/05	arthureld, OMC (Johnson/Evinrude) where built in the US and now that they are BRP (Canadian Company) they are still built in the US today. Mercury is the same, always US built. However, over the years (90's - about 04) Both manufactures did buy some powerheads for certain motors from either Yamaha (Merc) or Suzuki (Johnson 4 stroke motors). It is just me but, I would not power a classic 22 with anything less than a 200hp Motor. My father's Guardian has twin 150's. To each their own it just depends on how yo plan to use the boat. Edited by Jeff on 05/25/07 - 5:49 PM 1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive
Joe Kriz	#5  Posted on 05/25/07 - 6:15 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Jeff, Must be just you...... I looked at the 22' Guardian specs and the Recreational Outrage 22' specs. Both of these models state max of 240 hp So, your dad's boat is overpowered according to the specs... Whaler Drive models had a higher rating of 300 hp which allowed 150 hp twins on the 22' models. I would never have considered installing anything less than a 200 hp on my 22' Outrage Cuddy, however, the boat did amaze me with the 175 it had on it... She did 40 mph which was really fast enough for me... You younger Whaler owners like to have your hair stand straight out and the skin from your cheeks wrapped around to the back of your head before you say you are going fast enough....
arthureld	#6  Posted on 05/25/07 - 6:59 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 735 Comments: 7 Joined: 02/15/07	I feel like a dummy but I'm glad to hear there are 3 companies that build outboards in the US. For some reason, I like the idea of Evinrude. Either from the 80s, or maybe a newer one with fuel injection and electronic ignition.
Jeff	#7  Posted on 05/25/07 - 7:50 PM
Member Posts: 1987 Comments: 34 Joined: 04/02/05	Joe, I know I can be my own worse enemy when it comes to POWER! The more the better (to a point). I probably run my hull at a higher average speed than most. I just think the 22' hull feels happiest at 27-30mph. The guardian is happiest running in the mid - upper 30's no matter the sea conditions. Yes, the standard hulls and guardian hull are rated at 240hp. However, since it is over 20' you can exceed the capacity plate without being cited where those laws exist. Also, many 22 guardians still in service and right out of the factory run the 150's and I have even seen 175's. When you really stop to think about it, the E-Tec 200hp HO motors weigh less than the 150hp Merc 2.5L V-6's on our guardian now so......could you run the 200's? That would be a ride. Any who Roger (arthureld) so long as you stay away from the Johnson and Evinrude Ficth Ram EFI motors (Pre E-Tec) you should be fine. Edited by Jeff on 05/25/07 - 7:56 PM 1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive
jvz	#8  Posted on 05/25/07 - 8:36 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 215 Comments: 10 Joined: 03/16/07	YAMAHA !!
Joe Kriz	#9  Posted on 05/25/07 - 8:45 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	jvc, Nothing wrong with a Yamaha.... BUT, which size are you talking about? Please be more specific and why..... Take a look at the chart I listed above in a link... Which model would you choose for the weight and still run a kicker on the transom? Yamaha 200/225 2 stroke = 539 lbs and this is for the 20 inch shaft. You need to add a few lbs for the 25 inch shaft model Yamaha 200/225 4 stroke = 583 lbs E-Tec 200 = 427 lbs No question in my mind which engine I would choose... None... Zip... Nada....
Jeff	#10  Posted on 05/26/07 - 3:19 AM
Member Posts: 1987 Comments: 34 Joined: 04/02/05	The older Yamaha's are known to have issues with the gear case shift shaft rusting through. The only way to check it is to remove the powerhead to then remove the shift shaft and lower unit. At that point you may as well just replace it anyway. I am with Joe, If I had the money and could refit my 22 outrage with a new motor today it would be an E-Tec Hands down no question. 1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive
Doug V	#11  Posted on 05/26/07 - 4:42 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 340 Comments: 3 Joined: 09/21/05	Jeff and Joe, While we are all dreaming here, I thought I would chime in with agreement on the Etec 200. I think it would be great on my boat. Doug
GTL	#12  Posted on 05/27/07 - 4:49 AM
Member Posts: 25 Comments: 1 Joined: 07/09/06	Interesting that most of you prefer the ETEC ..... What about Optmax's....have you ever considered a four stroke? And what your opinion of twins? I have a 22 Outrage WD (1990) with the original 225 Evinrude ...it smokes and sucks gas ...but runs. This is my first season with the boat and may consider repowering next season ... thus the interest. Of course at today's prices, one wants an engine that sips gas, but on the other hand, I like going fast, thus was thinking of HP in the 250 -300 range. Appreciate any feed back. Thanks, Tom
arthureld	#13  Posted on 05/27/07 - 6:20 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 735 Comments: 7 Joined: 02/15/07	With the price of new engines, I would probably shop for a low hour used one. Hopefully that wouldn't be as much of a challange as finding my classic 22' Whaler. Since the motor seems to be about half the cost, it's great to get advice from you guys.
Joe Kriz	#14  Posted on 05/27/07 - 9:40 AM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	GTL, Many people look first at the brand they prefer and then the weight of the engine(s). For those of us living in California and a few other states that require a 'clean' engine, we have to look at the CARB rating. California prefers a CARB 3 rating. That leaves some of the Optimax's out. We can't argue with weight. Weight is what it is and you are better off with less weight... This doesn't mean that some of the boats can handle the weight of heavy 4 strokes or whatever, but the less weight the better for the transom.... No question in my mind... So, lets look at a pair of Verado 150 (4 stroke) engines compared to a pair of E-Tec 150 (2 stroke) engines. Verardo 150 = 510 lbs x 2 = 1,020 lbs E-Tec 150 = 427 lbs x 2 = 854 lbs The above is just an example and I know I have chosen one of the heaviest 4 strokes in the Verado series. When looking at any brand of engine, just keep in mind the weight. Also, and for me personally, I am not sold on 4 strokes. Too many moving parts and too many maintenance schedules. I live in a rural area and don't have the luxury of having any dealers close by. This means I would have to drive 1 1/2 hours and drop my boat off at a dealer. Wait a week (or so) and then drive 1 1/2 hours back to pick up my boat. And that is if I can get an appointment... With an E-Tec, no maintenance for 3 years.... DougV, I am having my mechanic check on his prices for the 115 and 150 hp E-Tec for my Outrage 18'. I want one, but there is nothing wrong with my 150 Evinrude that I have now so it is hard to justify replacing it at this time. I'm going to wait and see what his prices are and I will let people know what I find out.
Doug V	#15  Posted on 05/27/07 - 6:13 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 340 Comments: 3 Joined: 09/21/05	Joe, I am still very much dreaming of a new outboard and will be for quite some time. The old Suzuki, although very thirsty, smokey and noisy, still runs well. A certain amount of dreaming is good for you. I would be interested in hearing about the pricing your dealer comes up with concerning the 115 and 150 Etecs. Doug
arthureld	#16  Posted on 05/28/07 - 5:49 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 735 Comments: 7 Joined: 02/15/07	Sure is annoying how nobody advertises prices.
kamie	#17  Posted on 05/29/07 - 6:10 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	http://www.edsmarinesuperstore.com/ev...inrude.htm Ed's advertises prices.
arthureld	#18  Posted on 05/29/07 - 7:33 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 735 Comments: 7 Joined: 02/15/07	Thanks Kamie, I figured that was about how much they cost. I'll have to wait to see what comes with the boat I buy. I don't see a brand new e tek in my near future. I'll wait until I see how much I luv my 22' Outrage. And how much life I can get out of the motor that comes with it.
kamie	#19  Posted on 05/29/07 - 9:36 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	First find the boat you want. Have the engine tested or test it yourself. Then decide what engine you would put on it, assuming money was no option. Divide the price of the new engine, by the number of years you hope the current one lasts and stick that money in a savings account every year. You may not have the total price of a new engine when the old one dies but it will help along the way.
MWH	#20  Posted on 05/30/07 - 4:56 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 233 Comments: 2 Joined: 09/30/06	Interesting discussion. I'll chime in...When I found my Outrage, it came with twin 1989 Johnson 150's. The boat and engines had been sitting for 3 years so you can imagine all the maintenence the motors would require (plugs, thermostats, waterpumps, carbs removed and cleaned etc etc.).....The motors have been great and I service them regularly. They guzzle gas and smoke but the boat will be paid off soon. With the price of fuel going up I still don't have any idea what I would repower with? I like the E-tecs for weight, simplicity and maintenence schedule. I would like to go out on a boat with an E-tec just to see how they perform..However, my buddy's Yamaha 225 4-stroke is really smooth, sips gas and is very quiet...If I was looking for a 22 Outrage I would go with 200hp vs. anything smaller because a little extra horsepower is good if the boat is loaded. If the boat came with an old 2-stroke I would try to fix it up abit to get a few years out of it before repowering.