|
Shallow water Whalering
|
| sraab928 |
Posted on 05/15/07 - 1:20 PM
|
Member
Project Albums
Posts: 1282
Comments:
13
Joined: 12/27/05
|
I am looking to get a 13 foot Whaler to use in the local rivers during the week. These rivers are known to get quite shallow. Is the 13 Whaler a good choice for this kind of use? Anyone know how shallow they can be run? I think the draft is around 6" - plus the motor - I am thinking it could run in 2 feet of water. Am I wrong? Anyone with experience or advise on this subject?
I have my eye on a few - one is a 1985 13 with a 98 30HP Johnson. Dont know if that information matters or not - just figured I would share it.
Thanks!
Scott
1974 21' Revenge w Mercury 200 ProXS V8 |
| |
|
|
| Bob Kemmler JR |
Posted on 05/15/07 - 1:27 PM
|
Member
Project Albums
Posts: 269
Comments:
7
Joined: 10/10/05
|
Scott I have used mine in a foot or less, thats even punching it to hop right on plane and high tail it out of there. You can always do the circle method of planing as well where you make a large sweeping circle to get up on plane without fear of bottoming out. A doel fin would help keep it level at slow speeds in the shallow stuff. A jackplate will let you run a little shallower yet and a low water pickup lets you go even further. I doubt you'd need it though as the basic 13 Whaler/25-40 hp can go most places people need to go from what I have expierienced and been told. You could always get Rage jetboat, I hear they run shallow 
On the hunt for a classic 19 or 21 Whaler |
| |
|
|
| sraab928 |
Posted on 05/15/07 - 1:47 PM
|
Member
Project Albums
Posts: 1282
Comments:
13
Joined: 12/27/05
|
Thanks Bob - That seems to confirm what I was thinking...
Hmmmm a Rage... I have one that needs a motor... Acutally I was talking to another member about that and he said when you idle the boat kicks all sorts of stuff off the bottom in shallow water and tears it up pretty good. - I dont know if you noticed but I sold your old Whaler last night.
Scott
1974 21' Revenge w Mercury 200 ProXS V8 |
| |
|
|
| litespeed |
Posted on 05/15/07 - 3:19 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 67
Comments:
0
Joined: 05/26/05
|
sraab928 wrote:
I am looking to get a 13 foot Whaler to use in the local rivers during the week. These rivers are known to get quite shallow. Is the 13 Whaler a good choice for this kind of use? Anyone know how shallow they can be run? I think the draft is around 6" - plus the motor - I am thinking it could run in 2 feet of water. Am I wrong? Anyone with experience or advise on this subject?
I have my eye on a few - one is a 1985 13 with a 98 30HP Johnson. Dont know if that information matters or not - just figured I would share it.
Thanks!
Scott,
Yes... You can run in 2 feet of water. But you need at least that...
I run an 87 13 Whaler SS with a 35 Johnson. With me in the boat, a full tank of gas and all my fishing gear the boat draws 9 inches static (not moving). And my boat sits high in the water. Higher than any other I have seen around here. With newer, heavier power it will sit almost 2 inches lower in the rear. Making the "static draft" around 11 inches. This is the boat NOT including having the engine down.
With the engine down and level (static) the draft is 19 inches. My motor is raised 1 inch off of the transom as well. Under way at a "Slow Speed" the draft is around 21 to 23 inches with the engine level (down).
It is not a "skinny water" boat but I fish the shallow flats here on the Indian River Lagoon with no problems. I can blast across sand bars and grass flats in as little as 13 to 14 inches of water.
You need at least 2 feet of water to get it going. The above post is totally wrong regarding taking off in 1 foot of water. Not possible. Even with a jack plate or jet pump on the foot of the motor (been there, done that). The boat alone draws almost a foot of water from the water line down to the bottom of the rear strakes. Then you have a foot of engine hanging down below that.
I had a Sting Ray fin on mine for a while. It made the boat leap on plane much faster and I was able to cruise at a lower RPM, but I sacrificed too much on top end. So I took it off. It worked great. But I like to haul boogie every once and while.
I have been researching this a bunch because I run my boat in shallow water on an almost daily basis. With a jack plate you can get a couple more inches of motor off the bottom. CMC makes a nice jack plate for the older motors with electric tilt and trim. I have been contemplating getting one for mine. Here is the link:
http://store.wmjmarine.com/87-3352.html
Edit...Image below.....
Regards,
AJ
Edited by litespeed on 05/15/07 - 4:42 PM |
| |
|
|
| Bob Kemmler JR |
Posted on 05/15/07 - 3:48 PM
|
Member
Project Albums
Posts: 269
Comments:
7
Joined: 10/10/05
|
AJ come down to Naples and I'll show you how I can take off in a foot of water. It's my lower unit if I'm wrong, but I'm not too worried that will happen. I was loaded up last week with 6 gallon tank behind the seat,coolers,tackle box and my wife(90 lbs) and myself (190 lbs) on the back seat idling through a foot or less of water. I had to tilt the motor up a good bit, but it was no problem(not high enough to do the tourist roostertail either). When I have been by myself I have been in the same area and been able to jump right on plane in the same amount of water. I run a nissan 40hp 2 stroke, I think it's about 185 lbs. it's no BS braggin story, just what I have been able to do. I can't imagine needing 21-23" of water to operate a 13 Whaler in, thats 22 ft Outrage drafting territory. If the hull wasn't so noisy a 13 Whaler would be a decent flats boat IMO.
On the hunt for a classic 19 or 21 Whaler |
| |
|
|
| litespeed |
Posted on 05/15/07 - 4:55 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 67
Comments:
0
Joined: 05/26/05
|
BOB KEMMLER JR wrote:
AJ come down to Naples and I'll show you how I can take off in a foot of water. It's my lower unit if I'm wrong, but I'm not too worried that will happen. I was loaded up last week with 6 gallon tank behind the seat,coolers,tackle box and my wife(90 lbs) and myself (190 lbs) on the back seat idling through a foot or less of water. I had to tilt the motor up a good bit, but it was no problem(not high enough to do the tourist roostertail either). When I have been by myself I have been in the same area and been able to jump right on plane in the same amount of water. I run a nissan 40hp 2 stroke, I think it's about 185 lbs. it's no BS braggin story, just what I have been able to do. I can't imagine needing 21-23" of water to operate a 13 Whaler in, thats 22 ft Outrage drafting territory. If the hull wasn't so noisy a 13 Whaler would be a decent flats boat IMO.
Ok..... Here is the picture of my 13. The tape measure tells the story. You must mean a foot of water from the bottom of the boat and not "12 inches" of water. 1 foot of water means you have less than 3 inches from the bottom of the boat to the sand, rocks or grass. This means your engine would be tilted so high, that when you take off, your boat would go vertical and bury your lower unit into the bottom.
I used to have a jet pump attached to the bottom of this particular engine. I still needed 14 to 16 inches to take off properly.
In the picture below the tape is only 1" from the top of the bottom paint. Picture is taken in the middle
litespeed attached the following image:
[82.4Kb]
Edited by litespeed on 05/15/07 - 4:56 PM |
| |
|
|
| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 05/15/07 - 6:55 PM
|
Site Owner
Personal Page
Personal Album
Photo Albums
Project Albums
Posts: 11447
Comments:
452
Joined: 03/18/05
|
AJ,
It has been many years since I have owned my 13'....
The specifications on the 13' Sport model state 6 inches of draft..... plus of course however low the motor is.
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...allery.php
From your photo above, your engine looks like it is mounted too low. The cavitation plate looks to be 1" to 1 1/2" below the bottom of the keel. Recommended cavitation height is 1" to 1 1/2" above the keel.
I know I used to run in very shallow water.. I never measured it so I can't say exactly. I do know that I did tilt my engine up when cruising around the "very rocky bottom" of the Colorado River below the Hoover Dam..
Matter of fact, I ran with the "Shallow Water" bracket engaged on my 35 hp Evinrude.
Wish I would have measured the depth to help you guys out.
|
| |
|
|
| Bob Kemmler JR |
Posted on 05/15/07 - 10:41 PM
|
Member
Project Albums
Posts: 269
Comments:
7
Joined: 10/10/05
|
litespeed wrote:
BOB KEMMLER JR wrote:
AJ come down to Naples and I'll show you how I can take off in a foot of water. It's my lower unit if I'm wrong, but I'm not too worried that will happen. I was loaded up last week with 6 gallon tank behind the seat,coolers,tackle box and my wife(90 lbs) and myself (190 lbs) on the back seat idling through a foot or less of water. I had to tilt the motor up a good bit, but it was no problem(not high enough to do the tourist roostertail either). When I have been by myself I have been in the same area and been able to jump right on plane in the same amount of water. I run a nissan 40hp 2 stroke, I think it's about 185 lbs. it's no BS braggin story, just what I have been able to do. I can't imagine needing 21-23" of water to operate a 13 Whaler in, thats 22 ft Outrage drafting territory. If the hull wasn't so noisy a 13 Whaler would be a decent flats boat IMO.
Ok..... Here is the picture of my 13. The tape measure tells the story. You must mean a foot of water from the bottom of the boat and not "12 inches" of water. 1 foot of water means you have less than 3 inches from the bottom of the boat to the sand, rocks or grass. This means your engine would be tilted so high, that when you take off, your boat would go vertical and bury your lower unit into the bottom.
I used to have a jet pump attached to the bottom of this particular engine. I still needed 14 to 16 inches to take off properly.
In the picture below the tape is only 1" from the top of the bottom paint. Picture is taken in the middle
I can totally see you having problems with the jet pump as far as taking off goes, because you just robbed 40-60% of the motors Hp with the jet pump. next time I go out at low tide, i'll measure the depth and not rely on the fishfinder. The fishfinder registers to 1 foot of depth and then flashes when it's under that. I have taken off(punching it to wot in a second) while it's flashing which means to me 11" at the most and jumped right on plane. In any case the boat will float and be able to move under it's own power in some fairly shallow water. I won't argue anymore about it, but your more than welcome to go for a ride if your ever down this way. If I'm lyin you can gloat on here afterwards and show the pics of my twisted up prop and lower lol
On the hunt for a classic 19 or 21 Whaler |
| |
|
|
| sraab928 |
Posted on 05/16/07 - 3:09 AM
|
Member
Project Albums
Posts: 1282
Comments:
13
Joined: 12/27/05
|
Its all good guys! Thanks so much for the replies. One thing is for sure it can run in much more shallow water than my 19' Deckboat with the 150 VMAX on it! 
Thanks again. Hope to be posting soon on a new to me 13 in my stable. I've always wanted one and this just seems to be the best excuse I can find to finally take the plunge.
Have a great day! 
Scott
1974 21' Revenge w Mercury 200 ProXS V8 |
| |
|
|
| litespeed |
Posted on 05/16/07 - 7:56 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 67
Comments:
0
Joined: 05/26/05
|
Joe Kriz wrote:
AJ,
It has been many years since I have owned my 13'....
The specifications on the 13' Sport model state 6 inches of draft..... plus of course however low the motor is.
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...allery.php
From your photo above, your engine looks like it is mounted too low. The cavitation plate looks to be 1" to 1 1/2" below the bottom of the keel. Recommended cavitation height is 1" to 1 1/2" above the keel.
I know I used to run in very shallow water.. I never measured it so I can't say exactly. I do know that I did tilt my engine up when cruising around the "very rocky bottom" of the Colorado River below the Hoover Dam..
Matter of fact, I ran with the "Shallow Water" bracket engaged on my 35 hp Evinrude.
Wish I would have measured the depth to help you guys out.
Wrong again..... You people need to get out a tape and go look at your boats. That black line on my bottom paint is where "MY" water line is. My boat sits on the black line and not where the tape is. If you are idling the rear drops approximately 1 inch. From there to the bottom of the rear strakes is 9 inches. The only way a 13 will ever draw 6 inches of water is with no engine on the back and nothing inside of it. I know what Whaler says... That is a marketing tool.
Joe, my "aniti cavitation plate" is only 1/2" below the bottom of the boat. The angle of the camera caused that to look like more. It is not possible to mount it any higher with out a jack plate. Either way... 1/2" of an inch difference will never allow this boat or any other 13 to take off in 12 inches of water. Unless it has been modified with an "Inboard Jet Pump" like a jet ski. Then you would still be sucking up every thing in site on the hole shot (rocks, sand, shells, etc...).
I run with 3 other guys that use 13's the same vintage as mine around here. One has a 40 Yam. and the other has new 40 Merc. Both of these boats sit a good 2 inches lower than mine in the water. Both of these boats draw between 10 and 11 inches just sitting in the water engines tilted up. The Merc has a jack plate. His skeg and plate is 3 inches higher than mine to prevent chine walk. None of us would ever think of taking off in this little water. Unless you want your lower unit cleaned off and a big fat ticket from the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission (Law Enforcement).
AJ
|
| |
|
|
| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 05/16/07 - 9:23 AM
|
Site Owner
Personal Page
Personal Album
Photo Albums
Project Albums
Posts: 11447
Comments:
452
Joined: 03/18/05
|
AJ,
I am only quoting what Boston Whaler list as their specifications for the Classic 13' model.
If you have a problem with that and tell me "Wrong again", then you should contact Boston Whaler and let them know that their specifications have been incorrect since 1958...
It looks from your tape, that your waterline is about 6 1/2 inches from the bottom of the keel.
From the tape, this looks to be very close to Boston Whaler specs on the amount of draft....
This draft, as I mentioned above, does NOT include the motor.
|
| |
|
|
| litespeed |
Posted on 05/16/07 - 11:57 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 67
Comments:
0
Joined: 05/26/05
|
Joe Kriz wrote:
AJ,
I am only quoting what Boston Whaler list as their specifications for the Classic 13' model.
If you have a problem with that and tell me "Wrong again", then you should contact Boston Whaler and let them know that their specifications have been incorrect since 1958...
It looks from your tape, that your waterline is about 6 1/2 inches from the bottom of the keel.
From the tape, this looks to be very close to Boston Whaler specs on the amount of draft....
This draft, as I mentioned above, does NOT include the motor.
Joe,
You would be correct. But this discussion is not about a boat "without" a motor. It is about a boat with a 30 horse, 115 to 130 pound engine VERY similar to mine. So even discussing a 6 1/2" draft is a moot point.
With that setup. A loaded boat with one person draws 9" to the bottom of the rear strakes and 8" to the keel.
I'm not starting a war. I am only stating numerical facts about a rigged boat with a light weight engine.
And like I said before. Newer (heavier) power adds a couple more inches to the above drafts.
This is a better illustration.
Regards,
AJ
litespeed attached the following image:
[63.44Kb]
|
| |
|
|
| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 05/16/07 - 12:39 PM
|
Site Owner
Personal Page
Personal Album
Photo Albums
Project Albums
Posts: 11447
Comments:
452
Joined: 03/18/05
|
AJ,
We are discussing the draft of a 13' Classic Whaler and what depth of water the 13' can be run in....
We all know that the draft stated in the Boston Whaler information is 6 inches.
I am not positive, but I assume that this 6 inches of draft is without motor and without any occupants or any gear or fuel because the draft obviously would change with the weight of the motor and weight of any occupant(s).... This seems to be a correct assumption. True?
So, every 13' Classic model Whaler will most likely have a slightly different draft. True?
Heavy versus light motors. Weight of occupants, gear, fuel, etc... The heavier everything is, the more the draft will be. True?
So, you state, for your 13' model Whaler "with a jet pump attached to the bottom of this particular engine you still needed 14 to 16 inches to take off properly". True?
So, that is good information to know for your 13' Whaler.
Thanks for measuring that and this will give a good indication for the rest of the 13' Whalers that are equipped and loaded like your 13'.... The rest of the 13's will vary according to weight, plus or minus....
|
| |
|
|
| Bob Kemmler JR |
Posted on 05/16/07 - 1:18 PM
|
Member
Project Albums
Posts: 269
Comments:
7
Joined: 10/10/05
|
We're all friends here as far as I'm concerned and friends can argue over stupid $#@! lol Maybe I am putting too much faith in the depth reading of my fishfinder. I'll have to try and check it's accuracy next time it shows I'm running skinny. If I'm worng, it won't be the first or last time.
On the hunt for a classic 19 or 21 Whaler |
| |
|
|
| sraab928 |
Posted on 05/16/07 - 1:24 PM
|
Member
Project Albums
Posts: 1282
Comments:
13
Joined: 12/27/05
|
I didnt realize that this would be controversial.
I am ok with the information I have. It answered the mail for me. Im not looking to flats fish or anything. Just hoping not to have as much trouble in shallower water at lower tides.
Can't we all just get along?
Edited by sraab928 on 05/16/07 - 1:25 PM
Scott
1974 21' Revenge w Mercury 200 ProXS V8 |
| |
|
|
| litespeed |
Posted on 05/16/07 - 5:09 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 67
Comments:
0
Joined: 05/26/05
|
Joe Kriz wrote:
AJ,
We are discussing the draft of a 13' Classic Whaler and what depth of water the 13' can be run in....
This is true but you cannot "run" it without an engine as you keep coming back to your 6 inches of draft without an engine? Doesn't it say somewhere that the draft is 6 inches with "The engine tilted clear of the water"? Pretty funny... May be possible with a 2 HP. As I said before... Marketing...
We all know that the draft stated in the Boston Whaler information is 6 inches.
I am not positive, but I assume that this 6 inches of draft is without motor and without any occupants or any gear or fuel because the draft obviously would change with the weight of the motor and weight of any occupant(s).... This seems to be a correct assumption. True?
Correct! It is darn close and within 1/2" without an engine or any interior components (stripped). I actually swamped my boat when it was completed to test the buoyancy.
So, every 13' Classic model Whaler will most likely have a slightly different draft. True?
Of course. Fuel, battery, occupant and other weight will all be a factor in the draft. As I had stated above (my weight, fuel and fishing gear). Other factors would include the layout. Standard or Sport or Super Sport for years we are talking about. Not Bobs boat. Bob's is likely a short shaft rig unless he has modified the transom to accommodate a long shaft.
So, you state, for your 13' model Whaler "with a jet pump attached to the bottom of this particular engine you still needed 14 to 16 inches to take off properly". True?
Correct. With a "Sport" configuration.
So, that is good information to know for your 13' Whaler.
Thanks for measuring that and this will give a good indication for the rest of the 13' Whalers that are equipped and loaded like your 13'.... The rest of the 13's will vary according to weight, plus or minus....
Right on.....
AJ
|
| |
|
|
| litespeed |
Posted on 05/16/07 - 5:21 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 67
Comments:
0
Joined: 05/26/05
|
BOB KEMMLER JR wrote:
We're all friends here as far as I'm concerned and friends can argue over stupid $#! lol Maybe I am putting too much faith in the depth reading of my fishfinder. I'll have to try and check it's accuracy next time it shows I'm running skinny. If I'm worng, it won't be the first or last time.
Bob,
Absolutely!!
I'm just quoting facts about mine and several other boats that I have been in (and used) around here.
I don't hold any animosity against anyone here... I think this place is great and I plan to contribute in any way I can. I also came here to learn too.
I know a bunch about the 13 because I have used them for years as dinghy's for much larger boats and fishing for years.
I apologize if I am coming across as harsh. Not my intention at all. LOL!!
Hey Scott......... You should have all the information you need now!!
I'll trade you for that 15? That thing is pretty trick!
Regards,
AJ
|
| |
|
|
| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 05/16/07 - 5:42 PM
|
Site Owner
Personal Page
Personal Album
Photo Albums
Project Albums
Posts: 11447
Comments:
452
Joined: 03/18/05
|
AJ,
I owned my 13' Sport for 15 years.
My 13' had oar locks built into the hull from the factory so there was no need for an engine... Period. The boat could be used as a rowing dingy.....
Now that you mention it, yes, I do remember seeing it stated in the brochures, "engine tilted clear of water"....
And Yes, I will always quote the 6 inches of draft for the 13' model as that is what Boston Whaler states in their information. For me to say any boat has a different draft than what Boston Whaler states would not be stating the facts as listed from the manufacturer... I have no idea how they measure this.... In a swimming pool or pond? Large water tank? I don't really care.
It is what it is.
Draft is Draft.... You do not have to have an engine tilted up for the boat to have draft.... Nor do you even need an engine on a boat to have draft..... That is why, to me, the 13' will always have a 6 inch draft and I will always state it as such. We all know that the engine tilted down will stick into the water more than 6 inches. STILL, this does not change the draft of the boat. The boat is still 6 inches (in your case, 6 1/2 inches), it is just that the engine is hanging down further than the bottom of the hull. Maybe ALL 13' hulls are actually 6 1/2 inches but Boston Whaler rounded it down to 6 inches of draft for marketing purposes. I don't think that a 1/2 of an inch is that major of a deal....
To me, Boston Whaler list the draft of the hull, not the engine. As you mentioned, the brochure states with the engine tilted up and clear of the water, the draft is 6 inches. So I don't see why anyone can think different about the 6 inch draft that Boston Whaler states.
Boston Whaler says 6 inches of draft.
Litespeed says his is 6 1/2 inches of draft.
Edited by Joe Kriz on 06/13/07 - 6:38 PM |
| |
|
