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Ethanol myths clarified per Boat U.S.
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| zappaddles |
Posted on 11/30/11 - 4:38 PM
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Those of you who have received a copy of Boat U.S. magazine already know what this is about. This post is for those of you who don't receive the magazine.
Here is a Cliff-note version of the article:
1) Ethanol enhanced gasoline doesn't loose octane faster than regular gasoline.
2) It isn't important to install a water separator to prevent water from reaching the engine (in so much as Ethanol enhanced gasoline is concerned).
3) Additives will not prevent phase separation.
4) Ethanol enhanced gasoline cannot "reach out and grab moisture"
5) E10 Ethanol enhanced gasoline is an acceptable fuel for everyday use.
6) E15 gasoline IS NOT an acceptable fuel.
7) After transitioning from E0 fuel, E10 may actually be a superior marine fuel as it tends to keep low levels of water moving through the fuel system, keeping the system "dry".
8) Don't immediately assume E10 is the problem.
9) To help avoid condensation, do not store the fuel tank empty. Fill the tank leaving a small air space for expansion and contraction.
All I know is what the article stated and have no ability to confirm or repute what is in the article. There are those who will disagree with some, most or all of what I've repeated from the article. Among the sources sited were Mercury Marine, BP Global Fuels Technology and a senior engineering consultan with Chevron Fuels. The article was written by Bob Adriance, editor of "Seaworthy"
Some of you more inqusitive and technical types may want to research what the article says and give us your take on it.
Zap
If you can't play hurt....stay home. |
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| 70katama |
Posted on 11/30/11 - 4:49 PM
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I did read the article ....interesting. now lets try 15 % good idea huh lol. i hope the isobutol works out .. sounds promising
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| contender250 |
Posted on 11/30/11 - 4:56 PM
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I know two things about the Ethanol and no article is going to change my thinking/experience/uses of the fuel. #1 I'm sorry but ethanol eats my carbs/hoses in my lawn equipment and in the smaller Yamaha Four Strokes (I have had problems with 3 engines 4 hp, 15 hp, and a 60 hp all 4 strokes) it clogs the jets. Next it cost more to produce the ethanol than what it produces and the reason it is force on us ,is because some politicians are making a bundle...
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| 70katama |
Posted on 11/30/11 - 5:44 PM
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your right .. im sure money has a lot to do with it .i am concerned big time about the increase in ethanol content going to 15 % .it seems the metals in our outboards cant take it long term. the isobutal [spelling] looks promising . hey and what about the proposal in some states to not allow recreational boaters to use bottom paint with copper in it . but it will be ok for commercial an dgovernment boats . wheres the logic there.
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| CES |
Posted on 11/30/11 - 5:49 PM
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As stated before, ethanol eats the daylights out of my fuel lines, carb gaskets and fuel tank. Pure crap and because if the E-10, anything that requires corn has doubled and tripled in price. A steak that just a few short years ago paid about $4 a point now costs $12 a pound. WTF?? Thanks to the politics involved, we're paying more for everything. Pure politics, plain and simple.
Edited by CES on 12/01/11 - 5:59 AM
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 11/30/11 - 6:21 PM
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I have now run well over one thousand gallons of E10 through the 22 year old motors and fuel system of my 23 year old Whaler over the last three seasons.
I have absolutely zero problems from the Ethanol. Nada. Zippo.
Fuel lines: Fine.
Carburetors: Fine.
23 year old aluminum gas tank: Fine.
I've cut open my canister fuel/water separators twice now when replacing them and have found them to be perfectly clean. No gunk, no sediment, nothing.
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| TommyWhaler |
Posted on 11/30/11 - 6:25 PM
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Well you don't have to be technical person, you just need common sense. At the authorized dealer/repair facility for Yamaha and Evinrude I use, they display signs which say either warranty does NOT cover ethanol caused problems. So, if you use it you are asking for problems, and they won 't be covered under the warranty.
Over a year ago, Yamaha went around Florida testing gas at many locations. The average amount of ethanol in the gas, was over 20%. What do you figure it will be when the move to "15%"?
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| CES |
Posted on 11/30/11 - 7:17 PM
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Tom, I had new fuel lines go bad within a year. I've replaced them with Ethanol resistant ( or whatever they're called) lines inthe spring and they are fine now. Yes, ethanol was the cause of my lines deteriorating.
Edited by CES on 11/30/11 - 7:17 PM
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| jimmyrinaldi |
Posted on 12/01/11 - 2:22 PM
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I can't believe we are talking about ethanol again...
The worst thing about ethanol has nothing to do with whether or not it eats plastic or aluminum which it does...
The real problem is it links the price of corn to the price of oil. If oil prices go up then so can the the price of corn as a result. This is why recently cola companies are marketing real retro cane sugar soda. The price of corn sugar floats higher than cane sugar and they take advantage of the market. They switched to corn sugar years ago when it was dirt cheap before some moron decided to put corn in our gas...
The real danger is not to us directly but to famine vulnerable countries in the third world. Increases in the price of essential food supplies such as corn can mean the difference between whole regions starving to death or not. As corn gets more expensive less of it is donated for famine relief as well. For this very reason food commodities need to remain independent of other financial influences, such as oil prices.
Burning food to power our vehicles is potentially one of the worst ideas ever. It's not even cleaner to burn and takes even more energy to produce. Methane burns cleaner and there is plenty of it. E10 soon to be E15 only makes sense to those who have financial stakes in corn futures and ethanol technology.
GET YOUR CORN OUT OF MY GAS !
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| Phil T |
Posted on 12/01/11 - 3:42 PM
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Let's keep the conversation focused on Boston Whaler's please.
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| jimmyrinaldi |
Posted on 12/01/11 - 3:47 PM
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Ethanol ate holes in my Boston Whalers gas tank... How is that ?
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| CES |
Posted on 12/01/11 - 4:40 PM
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This thread has nothing to do with Whalers Phil.
Ethanol is a huge scam!!!
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| Jamco6000 |
Posted on 12/01/11 - 7:37 PM
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even tho most pumps say they contain ethanol the majority actually do not.
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| CES |
Posted on 12/02/11 - 3:37 AM
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Jamco6000 wrote:
even tho most pumps say they contain ethanol the majority actually do not.
Please explain??
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| Sourpuss1 |
Posted on 12/02/11 - 7:04 AM
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I have to agree with Tom. I have run 10% ethanol fuel through multiple boats / motors- 1987 yamaha v-6's on a 1987 Pursuit with all origional hoses / fills, 1974 Johnson 115hp, 199? 115 johnson, etc etc, and have not had any fuel issues.
I Work in the industry, and unless a station owner is doing something hinky, you are getting as close to 10% as they can get.
Remember, oil companies want to sell gasoline not ethanol....
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| brooks89 |
Posted on 12/02/11 - 8:47 AM
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Some points to ponder:
Why do certain, but not all areas offer "Rec" gas with no ethanol? In Florida "rec gas" is commonly available. Not here in New York. If they can offer it in Florida as an option, not sure why that's not the case here. Let the market make the decision. I read recently where E10 is being offered in Germany but meeting huge resistance from motorists.
Also-Around here, Marinas that sell fuel tend to sell down their inventory at the end of the season and leave their tanks low or almost empty for the winter. So even if you do what's recommended, there's a chance in the spring you may get a dose of "phase separated" fuel left in your supplier's tank.
As for new fuel lines, primer bulbs, etc going bad after a year or so, I honestly think manufacturer's have huge problem that's little discussed: quality control problems with their materials and products. I have had numerous items sourced from both national marine chains and mom and pop stores that have prematurely worn out, replaced them under warranty (and some on recalls!) to have the new items last just fine.
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| Silentpardner |
Posted on 12/02/11 - 10:07 AM
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Alcohol reacts on a chemical level with the rubber products, this is a fact and is known by all manufacturers of motors and fuel systems in the US. All plastics and rubber used in these alcohol fuel applications have to be made compatible with the alcohol contenet of the fuel making contact with these system parts. Have you noticed that auto manufacturerers now have a little emblem they put on certain vehicles like trucks and SUV's on the tailgate usually and maybe on the fender which indicate that the vehicle has been manufactured with Ethanol use in mind. These vehicles are rated based on the amount of ethanol they are capable of handling without damage, the highest I have seen is E-20.
The problem that has to be addressed as the alcohol content of the fuel is increased in the fuel mixture is the deposits that are left in the engine systems and catalytic converters as a result of the actual burning of the fuel. This had to be addressed even AFTER the problems with the fuel system components were resolved. This is the reason you cannot burn alcohol (Ethanol) blended fuels in older pre-Ethanol engines. If you run ethanol in engines that were not designed to burn it, you risk increased engine wear and eventual serious damage as a result of the deposits lrft in the moving parts of the engine and more frequent spark plug fouling. Also, the engine parts have to be able to handle the changes in temperature as a result of the alcohol burning at a different temperature than the gasoline in the mixture.
OK, that part was probobly also in that article that this post was extracted from, sorta, I don't know for sure as I have not read the actual article. The PRIMARY problem with ethanol as a fuel has always been the same, it is converting food into fuel. It is a scam to increase commodities profits, and this is very much connected to Whalers, in my opinion, because Whalers require owners to buy and operate them, (THAT WOULD BE US), and WE require food at a reasonable price in order to have enough expendable income to purchase and maintain them, as well as for continued operation of these vessels, as I tend to eat a bunch of corn-based snacks while I am fishing. The drinks I drink on the boat contain corn sweeteners and I have to be able to afford them too, I usually pick up these corny items when I get fuel, what a coincidence...
Sorry Phil, but as I see it, the discussion of the undrerlying problem of commodity prices related to the use of ethanol in fuel is exactly what NEEDS to be discussed by whaler owners and operators as well as by EVERY HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET, as the damage to old engines like mine is inconsequential in magnitude compared to this.
Perhaps this thread should not have been started here anyway- maybe if someone could move it to Whaler Tales or something? Apparently, there is a politiical aspect to ANY discussion of Ethanol, and there certainly SHOULD be. The LIVES of human beings are LITERALLY at stake around the world regarding this issue.
Edited by Silentpardner on 12/02/11 - 10:13 AM |
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| zappaddles |
Posted on 12/02/11 - 10:26 AM
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Silentpartner,
Your cogent and informative reply is appreciated.
As I recall, the "deposits left in the engine" aspect was not mentioned in the article. Are these deposits the reason that Yamalube Ringfree is suggested for Yamaha, and I'm assuming all 2 stroke outboards, engines?
Zap
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| CES |
Posted on 12/02/11 - 10:42 AM
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zappaddles wrote:
Silentpartner,
Your cogent and informative reply is appreciated.
As I recall, the "deposits left in the engine" aspect was not mentioned in the article. Are these deposits the reason that Yamalube Ringfree is suggested for Yamaha, and I'm assuming all 2 stroke outboards, engines?
Zap
X 2
Deposits left in the engine on four stroke motors are scraped off the cylinder walls by the piston rings and sent down into the oil. Once the deposits are in the engine oil, they are filtered through the oil filter. This is why new, light brown oil turns black over time....carbon deposits contaminating the oil.....which in turn will cause wear on engine components if not changed regularly.
Two stroke motors are essentially the same as a four stroke motor when eliminating deposits except the deposits scraped off the cylinder walls are not deposited into the engine oil, the are ported out with the engine exhaust.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| John Fyke |
Posted on 12/03/11 - 8:15 AM
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How does anyone know that ethenol breaks down fuel lines? Because you see it from the outside? If that were so fuel lines would break down from the inside. Maybe the break down of your fuel lines which you see from the outside is caused by the solvent type lubricants people use on the motors to protect them are actually having an adverse affect. Solvent lubricants and heat can and will cause damage to rubber and plastic.
John Fyke
Re-Fit or Reef It
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