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hydraulic steering
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| SeaLevel |
Posted on 10/27/11 - 6:36 AM
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Well, it's time to consider building a new console for my 1970 smirkless 16. I'm thinking about switching to hydraulic steering also. I have looked through the first 30 or so pages of engine threads and can't seem to find much on hydraulic steering. The question is, is it worth switching? What brand are you guys using on similar size boats? Is it relatively trouble free? The cable steering box on my boat is probably original and feels very loose. The steering wheel shaft is worn and wobbly and I really don't want to re-install it on a new console.
"It's just a forty eight year old Whaler but it's all mine"
Joseph R Palmieri |
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| contender250 |
Posted on 10/27/11 - 7:36 AM
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I just redid my 1975 16'7" last year, I pondered the same decision if it was worth purchasing a Sea Star System (I went with the sea star because I run a 140 on my whaler). Well I can give you some of the good and bads of both. Sea Star System, Good: cleaner look, can let go of the steering wheel while underway, very smooth steering. Bad cost about $900 for the Sea Star System with the hoses and oil, a little cheaper for the Bay Star, I have not had it long enough to notice any problems. Teleflex Steering Good: pretty darn dependable I had mine since 1975 same helm change the cable once. Cheap new cable is only about $100 and I found my helm nib and mount at a flea marine market for $25. Bad: Can not let go of the steering while under way, Hard to route the cable, sticks out, depending were you live the tube grease dries out and then the steering does not move.... Think of it this way, wire rope steering use to be the norm until the teleflex system came out and the rope wire went to the wayside. Now Sea Star Steering is becoming the norm and the cable is kinda on the way out. However because of the cost I think the cable system will be around for a long time. If money is not an issue, and you can install it yourself (you will need two people to bleed the system) I would probably do it again,
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| tedious |
Posted on 10/27/11 - 7:46 AM
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Personally, I would stay with the Teleflex cable steering. I am currently in the middle of an annoying and expensive experience with my 6-year old hydraulic steering - it certainly has not met my expectations about durability. Despite being relatively young and having only about 60 hours per year on it, I am looking at somewhere between $150 and $500 for a rebuild, or double that for a complete replacement. And of course that cost doesn't include my time to remove the steering pump and ram, clean up dripping hydraulic fluid, package and send to the rebuilder, then reinstall and refill / bleed.
The feel of the hydraulic is really no better than the NFB cable steering, in my opinion - not worth the headache!
Tim
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| SeaLevel |
Posted on 10/27/11 - 10:02 AM
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OK, that's one for and one against hydraulic steering. Money is always an issue but I think I can squeeze it out of my budget if enough of you think it's worth doing. I do everything myself so that's not a problem. I looked at the new consoles from Specialty Products and they are beautiful but I wouldn't go that route unless I was doing a total restoration with new gel coat inside and out. This is a custom boat that I use for fishing and not for show. (See my personal page),I plan to build a new console out of Azek sheet, SS screws, West System epoxy and Awl Grip finish. Hopefully I can retain the original BW slanted windshield look but it's still in the planning stages.
"It's just a forty eight year old Whaler but it's all mine"
Joseph R Palmieri |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 10/27/11 - 10:46 AM
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You do not need hydraulic steering for such a small boat. The mechanical steering systems are available both with, and without, NFB so that advantage does not go to hydraulic.
If you go hydraulic it will cost a small fortune (if you can get a complete kit for only $900 you are doing very well) while a complete, ready to install Teleflex mechanical kit can be bought for less than $200.
With the mechanical it you have near absolute reliability. With hydraulic you will have a more complicated installation and you will have leaks and drips in time. You will also have to add fluid periodically.
If you go with the BayStar hydraulic system you will be stuck with VERY slow (5.0 turns lock-to-lock) steering because it is so "geared down". With the more expensive SeaStar hydraulic you can choose the 1.7 cu. in. helm (about 5 turns lock-to-lock), the 2.0 cu. in. helm (about 4.2 turns lock-to-lock) or the 2.4 cu. in. helm (which will be closer to 3.5 turns lock-to-lock). For such a small boat you would want the 2.4 cu. in helm.
If you go with the Teleflex mechanical, you get the choice of 4.2 turns lock-to-lock or 3.0 turns lock-to-lock. Either is available with the NFB feature.
It's your choice how you want your steering response to feel, but you have to decide if your prefer to drive a bus or a sports car.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 10/27/11 - 11:01 AM
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Here is a Teleflex Safe-T-II kit (NFB and 3.0 turns lock-to-lock) with an 18' cable for less than $170 delivered:
http://www.blackbearsportinggoods.com...ch=SS13218
With the $700 or so you save, I am sure you could buy something else much more important for your boat/motor. Hell, with that much savings, you can buy two or three good stainless steel propellers!
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| Marko888 |
Posted on 10/27/11 - 11:45 AM
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Tom,
I'm not wanting to hijack the thread here, but, what would you choose for an Outrage 18 w/150hp?
We just picked one up with the original hydraulic system from 1985...so I'm expecting it to fail! Would you replace with a Sea Star or would a cable setup be sufficient? The boat will see all around use.
thanks
Mark
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| zappaddles |
Posted on 10/27/11 - 11:45 AM
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I'm very pleased with my NFB system. No engine torque at all.
Zap
If you can't play hurt....stay home. |
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| contender250 |
Posted on 10/27/11 - 12:28 PM
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Marko888: Like I said above the sea star system will cost you $900 or more, the cable about $200 (Kits on ebay). The boat will be just fine with the cable system, to me it comes down to what you want and want you want to spend. when I redid my boat I wanted to try it, also I did not like the cable coming out of the tunnel making a big bend to the engine, both, systems steered my boat, I have not had the sea star long enough for any problems to come about. Its really going to be up to the user....Take care
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| SeaLevel |
Posted on 10/27/11 - 12:48 PM
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Thanks for the input guys. I'm now leaning towards a new helm with NFB to replace my old one. The boat has a 90 Merc on it and I can probably get away with the Teleflex Baystar. I got a price of $649.00 for that one but it sounds like there's no real advantage to it. I think I will keep it simple and less expensive. I'm sure I can find a good use for the $400.00 difference elsewhere on the boat.
"It's just a forty eight year old Whaler but it's all mine"
Joseph R Palmieri |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 10/27/11 - 1:09 PM
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$529 for the BayStar system at Surplus Unlimited....
http://www.surplusunlimited.com/mm5/m...de=2300-05
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| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 10/27/11 - 4:58 PM
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I converted my little Outrage to a Baystar system when I repowered and I will never have a cable system again on any boat. Both my brother and my father who use my Outrage frequently, have repeatedly remarked what a great improvement the BayStar system has been.
I always had too much play in the steering even after replaceing all the componenets twice. The official responce from Teleflex was that my particular installation had a lot of turns for the cable each of which introduces play into the sytem.
I have SeaStar systems on my two other boats, one of which is 10 years old, the other 6 years old. Both have been trouble-free.
I paid a little less than $500 for the BayStar system including the shipping back in 2009.
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| Fishmore |
Posted on 10/28/11 - 12:58 AM
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I prefer the Baystar Hydraulic steering on my 17. I converted my last 3 boats which were all 22' plus to hydraulic steering but, when I was fixing up my 17 I thought I could get away with spending less money by buying the Teleflex NFB cable system. That ended up being a bad choice, I hated the feel of it so much that after less than two years I bit the bullet and bought the Baystar system. The hydraulic steering is smoother, the hydraulic lines are easier to route & they take up less space in the console above all that the whole boat just feels so much better to me. I do not mean any disrespect to you guys that like cable systems I just don't like the feel of them.
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| billybhoy10 |
Posted on 11/03/11 - 6:58 AM
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Go with a normal cable system. Fitted well you won't notice the difference. I had a cable system on a larson 213 escape with a 150 johnson. Could turn the wheel with a finger.....
You have no need for a hydraulic system. Buy some cold beer instead!!
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| Marko888 |
Posted on 11/03/11 - 7:55 AM
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The light went on for me when I realized you cannot let go of the helm with the NFB cable system. For this reason, I have to stay with hydraulic.
Have any of you used the BayStar with a 150 on an Outrage 18? As it's on the high end of the rating for that system, I'm curious if any have any feedback on it.
Our boat has a 1986 150 Johnson. When I have to repower, I think I would most likely go for a 130 ETC.
thanks
Mark
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| A Little Madness |
Posted on 11/03/11 - 9:22 AM
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In 2007 when we repowered A Little Madness, we also replaced the manual steering (wife couldn't use it) with the Sea Star hydraulic steering. I forget what we paid, but as they say, the first time Dale drove the boat w/the new steering, "priceless"....she was happy. Since that time, I've had no problems at all, routinely check the fluid level but haven't had to add a drop. I think the word is ...reliable! Similar to a discussion here recently about repowering, you must also consider how long you plan on keeping her, which for us is going to be a long time. So, one man's opinion. Good Luck w/your decision.
Chris & Dale Schnell
"A Little Madness" - 1989 Montauk 17' |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 11/03/11 - 10:49 AM
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The light went on for me when I realized you cannot let go of the helm with the NFB cable system.
Actually, you *can* let go of the wheel with the NFB (No Feed Back) system, that is the whole reason for it. If the wheel turns when you let go of the wheel you do not have an NFB system.
You also need to adjust your trim tab because even the regular non-NFB Teleflex Safe-T II systems, the wheel should not move when you are at cruising speed and at normal trim.
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| gacto |
Posted on 11/03/11 - 2:17 PM
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In did a complete re-do of my 15 this spring, and replaced the mechanical with BayStar Steering. I paid $475 shipping included. It was very easy to install, and having used it for a whole season I highly recommend it. I went with a smaller wheel (13" from 15" with a control "suicide" knob. After using both, I would never go back! Tubing and kneeboarding with the control knob is awesome. Pics on my personal page of the system.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell |
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| 84outrage18 |
Posted on 11/04/11 - 4:21 AM
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To answer Marko888's question, I have tried the Baystar on my Outrage with a 150. It was like the cable system, not much assistance. I then swapped it for the Sea Star and that was it worked great. My advise is that with a 150 you will need the Sea Star.
Joe Dieckmann
1984 Outrage 18 |
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| Phil T |
Posted on 11/04/11 - 6:38 AM
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I have the old non-NFB system on my boat and like that you can't let go of the wheel. Keeps you from doing something stupid while underway.
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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