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Have some of the concerns about ethanol been overstated?
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| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 10:17 AM
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Another thread brought this topic to mind. I've been using E10 gasoline exclusively for more than four years now. I've got three boats, all of which are trailered and all of them are refueled at gas stations. Rarely do I ever get fuel at a marina.
Now I'm well aware of the corrosive qualities of ethanol and the havoc it can play on fuel system and engine components. The concerns which get brought up time and again which I've experienced no issues with is moisture. All of my boats have aluminum tanks and they all have external filters/separators. With one exception I'll explain, I've never drained one bit of visible moisture or separated fuel components from any of my boat's separators.
The one exception is when I refilled my little Whaler at a local marina. Within about 30 minutes of leaving the marina, I got a water in the fuel alarm and my separator was full of water. I limped back to the ramp. When I got home I ended up draining the boats tank using a home made one gallon gravity separator and drained a little more than three gallons of water from the tank and discarding the remaining gasoline. Around 20 gallons total. Having previously never had issues at all, I can only assume that day's problems were the result of pumping contaminated gasoline from that marina.
My boats are stored outside but covered. Because I have three boats, they sometimes sit for months at a time between use. I don't make any effort to top off the tanks or empty them after use. I only use Marine Stabil.
Anyone familiar with Florida knows the high humidity we have to deal with. It would seem to be a nightmare with gasoline containing ethanol. However I still have yet to detect any separated water or ethanol from any of my boats and I have trouble believing its just been good luck.
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| whalerman |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 10:54 AM
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Same boat Johnny, been using Racetrac in my Outrage and do filter before going into tank and treating with regular stabil every time. I do check often the fuel hoses and the metal fittings and yes I do have a Racor with the "clear" bowl. So far so good after few years. Good luck?? HMMMM Like you I am in S.Fla. and cover the boat and the use is minnimal now days at $3.699/ gal. KWIK KNOCK ON WOOD!!!!
Edited by whalerman on 08/19/11 - 11:13 AM
THOM : 1999 Outrage 18, 2012 E-TEC 150, 2012 EZ Loader trailer |
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 1:01 PM
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I consider myself rather well read on the subject of Ethanol. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and I don't honestly care if others might differ.
The one fact that is indisputable is that E10 in our fuel has done nothing but enrich the farmers via subsidies and the refiners with new markets. It has not reduced emissions to any true degree and might even be worse than the straight fossil fuels of the past. The small engine industry hates the stuff and none of our engines until recently were ever designed to burn alcohol. Most of the problems being seen by auto mechanics can be directly traced to E10 fuel and the fact that unburnt byproducts are clogging the sensors and causing "Check Engine" lights to come on. With our boats and particularly the older engines we are well aware that alcohol attacks the fuel lines and various tanks as well as many of the older rubber parts in our carburetors. Engines that are E10 compliant are a very recent addition and the vast majority of boats are not fully E10 compliant.
Alcohol does in fact attract water! E 10 has clearly been shown to break down and separate in tanks and there is no disputing this.
The question remains. If it is not cheaper, if it does not burn cleaner or give us better fuel economy and if the Pro's are outweighed by the Con's then what real purpose does it serve? The process involved to produce E 10 has many hidden costs that most of us don't wish to even consider. Corn feeds livestock and many of the animals we eat. Corn produces the milk and cheeses we eat. We eat lots of corn and corn is twice as expensive now because of Ethanol. Our grocery bills are through the roof and today they sell corn on the cob by the ear rather than by the dozen as in years past. This nation continues to be very dependent on foreign oil imports and Ethanol has done little to curb this.
Junk science is leading the way as in other issues in recent times. Any way you look at Ethanol there is very little defensible benefits from it. Only those with their heads in the OZONE layer continue to support this failed experiment and I am certain we will hear from some right here. All I can ask is to prove to me how the increased costs have been a benefit. Please tell me that the cities in this nation with the biggest smog problems have cleaner air today and less smog. Please tell my that identical cars, one burning E 10 and the other burning real gas will get the same economy or better yet the E 10 car will get better. MBTE was a disaster in and of itself and we don't yet know what the long term effect of ethanol will prove to be. Stale fuel in our tanks is never a good thing but if the fuel is E 10 it will be stale a lot faster.
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| zappaddles |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 1:26 PM
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X2 Gamalot
Zap
If you can't play hurt....stay home. |
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| Blackduck |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 1:33 PM
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On a typical, humid summer day, take some E10 and put it into an open, glass jar, and leave it on the dock. Come back in an hour, or less, the jar will look like you filled it with skim milk. Can't be a good thing.
I do use sta-bil marine, which may be what is allowing the gasoline and water to mix, and it's this mixture that is turning white, thus no water ever seems to show up in the bottom of the glass, or in the bottom of my fuel filter bowl, thus a good thing.
Edited by Blackduck on 08/19/11 - 2:29 PM
Walter Reynolds
1973 Boston Whaler 16 Nauset 90 HP Yamaha |
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| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 1:33 PM
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lol, I almost feel bad Gamalot made that much of an effort to post what I think most of us have heard repeatedly. Don't get me wrong, I agree. However most of that wasn't why I initiated this topic. I was simply relaying my personal experience as far as the moisture issue. For me it hasn't been an issue and I'm not making a lot of effort to avoid it other than continuing to enjoy myself on the water.
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| Swamp |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 1:36 PM
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I agree with all points made by all parties.
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| John Fyke |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 1:40 PM
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I don't make things a concern if I have to deal with them. E10 or not. I make sure my rigs are ready for anything.
John Fyke
Re-Fit or Reef It
1979 15' Sport with Super Sport conversion and 70hp mercury. |
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 1:44 PM
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Too bad they don't make fuel tanks out of clear glass so you could actually see what is going on in them!
Water goes directly to the bottom of your fuel tank and most of us stay on top of our fuel supply and rarely ever dump our tanks so we can see what is really in there.
Fill up 2 clear glass gallon wine jugs, one with E 10 and the other with real gas if you can find it. Punch a small hole in the metal lids and leave both jugs in your shed for a month. Keep checking them because the E 10 jug just might over flow.
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| CES |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 1:51 PM
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E10 is pure crap and I totally agree with Gamalot. As a high performance engine mechanic on the side, he nailed the issues I've dealt with.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 1:53 PM
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Actually the E10 evaporates a little faster. we've done the experiment at work using one gallon pickle jars with holes punched in the lids. After about four weeks both samples had paled a bit but neither was milky.
I wish my tanks had sumps and a bottom drain. It would make me feel better to be able to check by draining from the bottom of the tank. Removing the fuel sender and siphoning from the bottom with rigid tubing is a PIA.
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 2:04 PM
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My shed is dark with a damp dirt floor all the time and I get much different results. The real gas stays pretty much yellow while the E 10 turns milky very quick and I have never seen any evaporation which tells me the alcohol is being replaced by water. Alcohol does evaporate.
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| John Fyke |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 2:09 PM
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If anyone seems to think they are getting moisture from E10 and don't have a water/fuel separator than they are foolish to say the least.
John Fyke
Re-Fit or Reef It
1979 15' Sport with Super Sport conversion and 70hp mercury. |
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| jimmyrinaldi |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 2:36 PM
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i just replaced a 1992 24 gallon aluminum tank that was eaten up from E10... It's just a matter of time...
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| Geo |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 5:29 PM
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I've been using E10 with my 2 cycle 1986 Yamaha for many years and there has never been a problem at all. Also, I am not using a water/fuel separator.
Edited by Geo on 08/19/11 - 5:34 PM |
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 5:38 PM
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Geo wrote:
I've been using E10 with my 2 cycle 1986 Yamaha for many years and there has never been a problem at all. Also, I am not using a fuel seperator.
I am sure I said this right here, "Only those with their heads in the OZONE layer continue to support this failed experiment and I am certain we will hear from some right here."
Now my only question to you is, have you been using E 10 by choice or because it is all you can find? There is not one sane individual here who would go out of their way to buy E 10 fuel if real gas was still available. Where am I wrong with this?????
Edited by Gamalot on 08/19/11 - 5:42 PM |
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| Geo |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 5:41 PM
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All I can find. My main point is not about the politics of using E10, only that as far as I am concerned, it has not affected the performance of my engine.
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| CES |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 6:01 PM
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E-10 has affected all my motors with less power and mileage.
I've had to replace the fuel lines as a result of the ethanol.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| jimmyrinaldi |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 6:01 PM
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if u can find pure gas on this site then make the trip !!!
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=MS
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 6:11 PM
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Geo wrote:
All I can find. My main point is not about the politics of using E10, only that as far as I am concerned, it has not affected the performance of my engine.
Absolutely wrong Geo. E 10 is documented to be at least 20% less efficient than real gas and efficiency is a major part of performance. I am perfectly fine when others say they have not noticed water in the gas issues. Not so fine when they claim their engines perform just as well because it just aint so!
We can argue this till we are blue in the face but no one can give us any positive benefits from switching to Ethanol. It is a failed experiment and the sooner we force it's demise the better off we all will be. This is not politics, just stupidity and we are following those who stand to gain the most. It has done nothing but cost us all a lot more of our motoring and boating cash. I am also rather fond of steak, milk, eggs and cheese--------All produced by the corn going in to my tanks!
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