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Trouble Shifting into Reverse
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| blindeman |
Posted on 07/04/11 - 5:28 PM
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Went on my shake down for my refurb'd 1974 Sport 13 yesterday. I put a 1996 40hp Yamaha on it that's in great shape. I had the dealer mount the motor and rig everything up and install/rig a new steering system. They did a nice job.
However, when I went to put her in reverse and back away from the ramp, it grinded and didn't want to go in reverse. Rather than damage something, I shifted it back to neutral. We "walked" the boat around and put in in forward and away we went. I tried to shift it a time or two more during our hour long run and the same thing happened each time.
When I got her home and while flushing her out with the hose and muffs, I tried to shift it in to reverse one more time, this time, making sure I squeezed the red shift lock tight and this time, it went in to reverse.
Does it sound like perhaps the cable(s) simply need adjusting or is something else likely the culprit? I was thinking that since the cables are new and newly installed that it might take some tweaking to get it shifting correctly. At least I'm hoping that's the fix. The dealer who installed it all for me is my local BW dealer and they are, of course, Merc certified -- but not Yamaha. Perhaps there are some Yamaha nuances with setting up the Yamaha controls/cables they're not familiar with..?
Your thoughts are welcome and appreciated!
Bruce
Bruce Lindeman
1992 Sport 13 |
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| modenacart |
Posted on 07/04/11 - 6:16 PM
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I would have the shop adjust the rigging.
I lost the reverse in my engine and it turned out to be a failed gear. Hope that doesn't happen to you.
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
--Benjamin Franklin |
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| blindeman |
Posted on 07/05/11 - 9:56 AM
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I talked to the shop on the phone today. Said that I need to get it in to gear quickly; that sometimes they do grind slightly and that I may not be shifting it in to reverse quickly enough. Thoughts..?
Bruce
Bruce Lindeman
1992 Sport 13 |
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 07/05/11 - 12:03 PM
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I think I'd start by putting the shift in neutral and then disconnecting the shift cable at the engine linkage. Then move the linkage by hand to reverse, and see if the prop is fully locked (reverse gear is engaged). If so, shift the shifter into reverse and see where the cable end is in relation to the linkage connector. You can then try the same in forward gear. This will give you a good idea if your cable is adjusted correctly.
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| rvschulz |
Posted on 07/06/11 - 8:57 AM
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from my personal experience - slam that baby into gear. you don;t have a clutch - it's a direct shift into gear and you don;t want to have it 'almost' in gear ever unless you like repair bills.
you should get a feel for how hard to push it and at what point it actually get some RPS in gear so you will know how to get it in gear quickly but still be in idle.
with that said - i'd have them put it in the tank and show them what it's doing - it may need adjustment.
1987 Montauk 17, 2013 Etec 115 |
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| blindeman |
Posted on 07/06/11 - 2:03 PM
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I definitely was trying to baby it and in doing so may have made the problem seem worse than it is. I had some guests on board and didn't want them hitting the deck or flying overboard if I hit it too hard. I'll definitely play with it some more when I get her out next time.
Bruce Lindeman
1992 Sport 13 |
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| blindeman |
Posted on 07/24/11 - 12:09 PM
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UPDATE: I replaced the 9 pitch prop that came with the motor to a new Yahama 14 pitch. The boat ran much better, got up on plane easier with a full load yesterday: 3 adults and a 13 year old, 6 gal of gas and assorted "stuff". That's the good news. Here's the bad...
I'm still having issues with the controls, cables, or both. At the dock, when I started it up -- in neutral -- with the neutral throttle lever in the up position, she went into gear. That was a little hairy, to say the least. My buddy checked and the shifter was locked in neutral. No doubt of that. we both checked. It was locked in neutral. Once we got over that little unexpected scare, I threw it in to forward and away we went. The engine ran smooth and the shifter/throttle seemed to work fine. It wouldn't go in to reverse the one time we tried, but grinded like it did during my first trial run.
We ran for about 45 minutes and anchored. Goofed around in the ocean for about an hour and then started the boat up again to go home.
When we got the boat back in my driveway, we hooked up the muffs/hose and started up the engine to flush it out. While doing so, the controls worked perfectly. It started in neutral, not in gear, as it did in the water. And, it shifted in to forward and reverse with no issues.
I'm stumped and would love some thoughts on possible things to look at. The cables are connected properly. Everything was installed at my local BW dealer. The controls are Yamaha Model 703.
Thanks!
Bruce
Edited by blindeman on 07/24/11 - 12:13 PM
Bruce Lindeman
1992 Sport 13 |
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| Rick K |
Posted on 07/25/11 - 3:02 PM
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With the boat on the trailer.
The engine is not running/key off, try putting the shifter all the way in reverse. Then walk back to the engine and try to turn the prop. It should not turn. If it does the shift cable or the shift rod are out of adjustment.
With the shifter in forward the prop should be locked also. When the shifter is in neutral you should be able to spin the prop.
Good luck,
Rick
1985 Montauk/2003 Johnson 115 |
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| tedious |
Posted on 07/25/11 - 5:51 PM
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Bruce, your shift cable may be connected properly, but it's certainly not adjusted properly. The symptoms you are seeing are the classic result of a misadjusted cable, so it's in neutral at the shifter, allowing the start, when the motor is actually in gear on the motor end. The same misadjostment is making it hard to get into reverse. Take it back where you bought it and make them fix it - it's literally two minutes of work so I don't know why they are trying to talk you out of it. If they give you any bull, let them know that it's a safety issue and that if someone gets hurt, you're coming after them.
Tim
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| blindeman |
Posted on 07/25/11 - 5:52 PM
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Hey Rick -- Thanks!!! I'll give it a shot and let you know!
Bruce
Bruce Lindeman
1992 Sport 13 |
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| Phil T |
Posted on 07/25/11 - 6:07 PM
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Bruce - see your duplicate post for additional replies.
Here is the reply from the other post that has now been deleted.
There are fine adjustments to make on the engine end.
The cables slip into a slot with the threaded fitting attach to the lever with the cotter pin.
It is the threaded portion of the cable end which adjusts so that the fitting at the end of the cable attaches at the proper place. Sorry, hard to explain.
The shifting out of the water can be different. Should adjust the cables while at the dock.
If I paid a dealer, I would take it back. I know it is a PITA but for the money they charge, a straight forward task should be done correctly. The installer was going too quick.
My brother had the same exact setup (C40 with a 703) and would always shift slowly. After 2 years of me constantly reminding him, he stopped shifting gently. No grinding.
Edited by Joe Kriz on 07/25/11 - 6:10 PM
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| blindeman |
Posted on 07/25/11 - 6:17 PM
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Thanks, guys. This is what I was thinking and hoping was the issue. Now what to do about it. The problem is that we live 120 miles away from our place down on the Bay. My local mechanic down there, on the other hand, is a mile away from the boat. So, although taking it back to the dealer who installed it is the right thing to do, it's also the most inconvenient.
Either way, we'll get it fixed and back on the water!
Thanks again. This site is awesome!
Bruce
Edited by blindeman on 07/25/11 - 6:19 PM
Bruce Lindeman
1992 Sport 13 |
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| CES |
Posted on 07/26/11 - 3:53 AM
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I've have the exact same problem on my 1993 40hp. All I did to remedy the problem was adjust the linkage that's located right where the shift rod attached to the lower unit.
Adjusting the linkage can be done by most mechanics. Is there a mechanic that is closer than 120 miles from you?
Either way, if you drive 120 miles to work on your boat or take it to the mechanic near where the boat is located, you're going to have to make the drive. Since there's still time left in the boating season, my recommendation is to make that drive to repair your boat sooner rather than later.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| blindeman |
Posted on 07/26/11 - 2:12 PM
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Cliff -- Thanks! No, there's a mechanic one mile from where I keep my boat, where we have a weekend home on the Bay. It's just that the dealer who installed it is 120 miles away. I can get it easily fixed down there. It's just that the ideal solution would be to take it back to the dealer who installed it and have them do the adjustment. But, that's also the harder on me. I should've thought about that back when I had the install done. Live and learn, I suppose 
Thanks again!
Bruce
Bruce Lindeman
1992 Sport 13 |
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| tedious |
Posted on 07/26/11 - 4:38 PM
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Bruce, you can do a quick check of the shift cable adjustment by yourself. I'm not sure of the exact arrangement in your Yamaha, but at the motor end, there is usually a yoke on the end of the cable that fits onto a pin on the shift linkage. You remove a clip, then you can pull the yoke off the pin, maybe loosen up a locknut, and adjust the length of the cable.
To do a quick check of the adjustment, unclip the yoke and take it off the pin. Then put the control lever into neutral, and make sure the motor is in neutral as well - move the shift lever manually if you have to, and spin the prop to verify neutral. Kind of wiggle both the control lever and the shift lever to make sure they settle into place. Sometimes there is even a mark in the motor casting that shows where the shift lever should line up. Then see if the yoke fits back onto the pin without moving the motor's shift lever. With your symptoms, I am betting you'll need to move move the motor's shift lever to fit the yoke onto the pin. In which case, you need to turn the yoke in or out until it does fit on the pin without moving the lever.
It takes a lot less time to do it than describe it!
If you do all that, and it does seem to fit right on, you'll next need to check backlash in the cable. That's not hard either, but I'll save the writeup on that until you need it.
Finally, this isn't something to mess with unless you're confident you know what you're doing - it's a safety issue. If you have a local mechanic you trust who can take a quick look, that might serve you well.
Tim
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| blindeman |
Posted on 07/26/11 - 5:14 PM
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Thanks, Tim. It seems to me that there's to much play in the cable. If it were "shorter" then it wouldn't grind when I put it into reverse. It's like putting the shifter into reverse doesn't quite move the lever at the motor enough to engage reverse. A slightly shorter cable would pull the lever into position properly.
Also, being to "long" seems to explain why when I started it up in neutral, the lever at the motor was actually in forward. Again, a shorter cable would not allow the forward gear to engage.
So, adjusting the cable length seems like a logical fix.
But, to your point, I might trust the fix to my mechanic to be on the safe side
Bruce
Bruce Lindeman
1992 Sport 13 |
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| tedious |
Posted on 07/27/11 - 10:43 AM
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Bruce, when I set up my F70 (with a new cable) it had approximately 3/16" of slop (I used the term backlash above) in the cable, measured by removing the cable from the pin on the motor end and pushing the cable in and out. I used a felt tip to mark the cable at the ends of travel. And then the install instructions have you put the cable right in the middle of that travel, and then adjust the length so it just aligns with, and can slip onto, the pin. It all makes sense if you think about it.
If you have a lot more slop than that, it may be that whatever mechanism anchors your cable's sheath in place may be loose or slipping - that could happen at either the motor or control box end.
Tim
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