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New Engine for a 2009 130SS
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| Shrimpy |
Posted on 12/20/10 - 11:07 AM
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I have had a bunch of boats and this new 130ss is my first 4 stroke outboard (and likely my last) It is set up factory stock (14 pitch prop) and will top out at the published 32 MPH.
I don't think there is anything "wrong " with the boat.
The 40 hp 4 stoke is just a dog. It will fight to get on plane (I have to move to the front or turn left then right to get it to tip over)
Anyway, to that end I just found and purchased a brand new left over 2 stroke 50 Merc. It is lighter than the 40 4 stroke and well under the max engine weight listed on the plackard
I know it's over rated but the older ones were rated for 50 and I am an adult and have had several 60-70 MPH boats. My car will go 150MPH but I dont drive it that fast so please dont reply with all the legal BS. I installed it myself and take full responsibility for my actions.
Here's the questions I have not installed the motor yet)
For those that may have this set up with a 130 sport or SS or a 13 dauntless.
What prop would you start with?
What prop are you using?
What kind of top speed (not really that important but would love to see 40)
Do you think this will get me the get up and go that the boat deserves?
I fish the flats and need a boat that will jump up on top when I hit the gas (I dont really care about top speed and rarely run the current setup wide open)
By the way I will have a 40 EFI for sale soon with warrenty till 2014
Samurai Mechanic! HYE! |
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| dgoodhue |
Posted on 12/20/10 - 1:19 PM
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Shrimpy wrote:I know it's over rated but the older ones were rated for 50
The older ones were rated for 40hp, but were a much lighter (300#'s) and were 5" narrower. It's heavier and wider than my 15' rated for 70hp.
The new small Whalers seemed to be conservatively rated. You will probably need 60hp to get to 40mph. (it would probably handle the weight as well) Your 40hp 4 stroke is probably not weak, it just that 40hp is on conservative side for the size and weight of the new whalers.
Dave |
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| tedious |
Posted on 12/20/10 - 2:38 PM
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Shrimpy, what's the WOT RPM? I just checked the performance specs, and your boat is supposed to do 35.0 MPH at 5950 RPM, not the 32 you describe. Maybe that seems trivial, but you're off the expected speed by nearly 10%. Sounds like you may have a problem with your particular motor - hard to believe that Whaler would sell a boat that performs as badly as you describe.
Tim
Edited by tedious on 12/20/10 - 3:07 PM |
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 12/20/10 - 3:44 PM
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You made a good decision and you're going to like that engine. That Merc classic 50 is a great engine for the price. Not long ago, "Bass and Walleye boats", and later re-published in "Trailer Boats", did a 50HP "Shootout" of every 50 HP engine on the market, including both conventional 2-strokes, DFi 2-strokes (E-tec) and the 4-strokes.
The 2 stroke Merc 50 won best overall! Fastest top end, fastest acceleration, fairly quiet running with little smoke, and reasonably good fuel economy, but less than the 3-star's as expected. The E-tec 50 came in close to last in performance. It's 2 cylinder design is a huge drawback against the 3 and 4 cylinders of the others. The Merc 4-stroke 50 also performed 2nd best , and near the top.
You can do a Google search for the article on line.
Try Mercury's prop selecter for what you need in pitch and prop design.
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| John Fyke |
Posted on 12/20/10 - 4:22 PM
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How is your motor hung? Might have been too low in the water.
John Fyke
Re-Fit or Reef It
1979 15' Sport with Super Sport conversion and 70hp mercury. |
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| kb5xg |
Posted on 12/20/10 - 4:29 PM
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I have a 2010 130SS. I get 32.2 GPS speed at WOT approximately 5950 RPM. I have no current and no wind to mess with the speed. I also have the 40 Mercury 4 stroke and it does come up on plane slow but when it rounds the top it accelerates quickly, I was told by the dealer to pop it up on plane faster to go to a 13 pitch prop but would loose a couple of top end mph. I will use mine for tubing and will probably go to a 4 blade 13 pitch stainless next spring and he said I would lose about 5 mph of Top End but would pop up on plane much much quicker. I do have a bit of hesitation between 2250 and 2750 rpm, but then it gets it.
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| tedious |
Posted on 12/20/10 - 5:50 PM
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kb5xg wrote:
I have a 2010 130SS. I get 32.2 GPS speed at WOT approximately 5950 RPM.
Wow, that's quite a discrepancy from Whaler's published numbers (http://media.channelblade.com/boat_gr...nePerf.pdf). If both the RPM and the MPH were off, you'd just say the boat is loaded more heavily than was Whaler's during the testing, but when just the MPH is off, it certainly raises some questions.
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| dgoodhue |
Posted on 12/21/10 - 3:05 AM
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Is their a chance the propeller is damaged? Also how heavily loaded is your boat?
Edited by dgoodhue on 12/21/10 - 3:06 AM
Dave |
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| kb5xg |
Posted on 12/21/10 - 4:36 AM
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The propeller was fine when I made the speed runs. It has nicks in it now. The boat feels a little flaky when doing 32.2. It really feels different when you try to turn, The engine is trimmed up quite a bit to hit the 32.2. in fact if trimmed up anymore started sucking air and speed would go down, Spray looked like that you see behind high proformance bass rigs running 70 or so. Elevation was approximately 800 ft MSL. Fuel tank was full, Driver is overweight, 250 lbs. empty ice chest, top was up but not out, storred in the cover. anchor and line in bow locker, bumpers stowed inboard and not hanging off the side. Temperature was probably in the middle 80's with humidity in the 70's or 80's. Water temperature was mid 80's on the surface. Lake was glass smooth.
Edited by kb5xg on 12/21/10 - 4:39 AM |
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| Waterwonderland |
Posted on 12/21/10 - 6:32 AM
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Which hole are you using with engine mount? Engine should be jacked up especially when using a stainless steel prop.
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| dgoodhue |
Posted on 12/21/10 - 7:11 AM
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Didn't they use to sell the new style 130's with 25hp 4 strokes. If its slow to get on plane with a 40, I would imagine the 25 would disappointing.
It crossed my mind to buy a new 130 given the cost of a nice used classic 15'. From your reports I would have been disappointed with the performance. I can basically cruise at your top speed.
Dave |
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| Fishmore |
Posted on 12/21/10 - 9:10 AM
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All things being equal that 50hp two-stroke should come up to speed faster and perform better during acceleration than the 40hp 4-stroke did. I would just stick with the 14 pitch prop you have already and see where your RPMs are at. The two-stroke should be running max at 5500 RPM where the four-stroke ran up to 6000 RPM. I ran a calculator and the theoretical max speed with either motor and a 14 pitch prop is 37 mph. Pretty close to what BW publishes.
Make sure you trim up the motor during your testing to ensure you get the max RPM. Also when you mount the motor ensure that it's high enough up on the transom. The anti cavitation plate should be around 1.5" to 2" above the running surface of the boat.
Good luck I hope that new motor meets your expectations!
Edited by Fishmore on 12/21/10 - 9:41 AM |
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| Binkie |
Posted on 12/21/10 - 4:57 PM
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fishmore, your comment, The anti cavitation plate should be around 1.5" to 2" above the running surface of the boat.
Please clarify. Your not saying that the plate should be that high above the water surface are you? You would need a surfacing prop and probably lose water pressure. The new !3 footer is too heavy for that kind of setup. I run my 25 4 stroke Merc/Tohatsu with the plate just above the water surface on my 325 lb. `61 13 footer. I run a 9" pitch prop. I also installed a whale tail. With the interior moved forward 6 inches. It will run 28-29mph GPS. RPM is 6,000. It will also cavitate somewhat in a following sea.
I would try using a whale tail stabilizer, and try venting the prop for more acceleration.
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| Fishmore |
Posted on 12/21/10 - 6:48 PM
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Binkie, not the water surface, the running surface. i.e. take a board or carpenters level and hold it against the bottom of the boat (close to the keel) extended back to the motor. The anti-cavitation plate should be approx 1.5 - 2 inches higher than the top of the board. The motor weighs 200 lbs, plus another 300 lbs of gear on the boat so the anti-cavitation plate will still be well under water at idle. As the speed increases the boat will get on top of the water until the water level is even or slightly below the anti-cavitation plate. I have heard of guys running motors much higher on the transom (especially with jack plates). Key is not to be dragging your anti-cavitation plate through the water. Some people refer to this as one hole up or two holes up etc... I prefer to reference the anti-cavitation plate in relation to the running surface or bottom of the hull because some transoms are longer than others. By raising the motor you reduce drag at WOT and thereby increase speed. by what you are describing I am sure you have done or heard of this before. My motor was mounted all the way down originally and after raising it I gained several mph and as Shrimpy wrote he is looking for more performance out of his setup. Hope this clarifies what I was saying?
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| tedious |
Posted on 12/22/10 - 4:54 AM
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At this point, I think Shrimpy is probably running away screaming, as he's already bought a new motor and is getting so much helpful advice on the old one!
Tim
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| CES |
Posted on 12/22/10 - 5:53 AM
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Fishmore wrote:
Binkie, not the water surface, the running surface. i.e. take a board or carpenters level and hold it against the bottom of the boat (close to the keel) extended back to the motor. The anti-cavitation plate should be approx 1.5 - 2 inches higher than the top of the board. The motor weighs 200 lbs, plus another 300 lbs of gear on the boat so the anti-cavitation plate will still be well under water at idle. As the speed increases the boat will get on top of the water until the water level is even or slightly below the anti-cavitation plate. I have heard of guys running motors much higher on the transom (especially with jack plates). Key is not to be dragging your anti-cavitation plate through the water. Some people refer to this as one hole up or two holes up etc... I prefer to reference the anti-cavitation plate in relation to the running surface or bottom of the hull because some transoms are longer than others. By raising the motor you reduce drag at WOT and thereby increase speed. by what you are describing I am sure you have done or heard of this before. My motor was mounted all the way down originally and after raising it I gained several mph and as Shrimpy wrote he is looking for more performance out of his setup. Hope this clarifies what I was saying?
Absolutely.
While the boat is on plane, you should be able to see the Anti-cavitation plate at or just above the water passing underneath it.
Good job on the description.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| Shrimpy |
Posted on 12/24/10 - 12:21 PM
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First of all Thank you all for the comments.
Now I have a couple.
1. KB5XG I have a 13 pitch Trophy Sport (4 blade) and it is dismall. 25 mph tops!
It does jump up on top better, but it wont take any trim at all. (4 blades have stern lift and this boat needs bow lift.) Get a 12 or 13 pitch 3 blade if you run heavy. Remember you must trim with the speedo (or GPS) not the tach. The tach is just there to check your top speed RPM and then select a prop.
2. I run the boat with 2 people and fishing gear so it is heavier than the "test boat"
3. Fishmore: I am going to start with the 14 pitch and see where that takes us. I used a prop calculator and it said 14-15 pitch so that should get me in the ball park.
4. I have had race boats and have a pretty good understanding of how to trim for speed and engine height.
Mine came from the factory in the center hole which is about 1.5 inches up.
Again, Thanks for the replies and Merry Christmas!
I will get the motor installed this week and make a test run. I will let you know how it goes, but it may be next year ....
Samurai Mechanic! HYE! |
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| Shrimpy |
Posted on 12/27/10 - 3:20 PM
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Picked up the motor today and got it installed. Pretty easy install The only surprise was that I needed a 14 pin to 8 pin adapter from Mercury for the harness. No big deal and the selling dealer (Bass Pro) told me about this up front so I had it handy when I needed it. Great guys at Bass Pro Ft Myers!
They also said they would have no problem validating the warrenty but needed to see the motor installed on the boat so I am off to Bass Pro again tomorrow to get that done.
I went ahead and installed the 14 pitch alum prop for now and will use that for a base line.
I dont have scales handy but I can tell you that the front of the trailer got quite a bit heavier with the new motor as I could lift it before and now I can't. (This means that the new motor is lighter than the old one but I can't tell you how much) I don't trust Merc published weights.
Anyway, runs great and is ready for the water. ... Now if it will just warm up a bit .....
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| Shrimpy |
Posted on 01/03/11 - 9:52 AM
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Got to run the boat this week and all I can say is WOW! This is the way this boat is suppose to run!
I was loaded heavy with 2 people, 10 gallon livewell full in back, cooler, 5 gallon minow bucket full, 6 gallons of gas, 2 batteries, trolling motor on the transom tackle ect, and the boat jumped up on top in one boat length! It is amazing! It still only runs mid 30s (36 on GPS) with the 14 pitch prop but it gets there ... right now!
This is the motor that should come on this boat.
Even fully loaded I can get 5500 RPM at full throttle with just a little trim.(I could trim for more bow lift but would over rev)
I will be looking for a 15 pitch SS prop soon, but for now the 14 Pitch Alum works fine as long as I watch the tach at top speed (which I almost never run anyway)
The hole shot is simply ..... amazing!
Very Happy BW Owner!
Samurai Mechanic! HYE! |
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