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Montauk Kicker Advice Requested
themclos	#1  Posted on 01/22/07 - 9:21 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 81 Comments: 3 Joined: 12/11/05	I am looking at some older (1950's - 1960's) Johnson and Evinrude 2-stroke motors in the 5HP to 6HP range. Typically, they have been rebuilt and look to be in good working condition. I am looking for a kicker for my 1994 17 Montauk. The motors are short shaft (15"), however, I have a Fulton motor bracket on the transom, which would allow the use of the short shaft kicker. Prices vary between $250 and $400. I am in the Northeast. Do these prices seem reasonable? Though I am reasonably handy, and I expect to get my hands dirty with an older kicker, I would benefit in the short term from purchasing something that is in good running condition. Thanks in advance. Dan
Jeff	#2  Posted on 01/22/07 - 10:22 AM
Member Posts: 1987 Comments: 34 Joined: 04/02/05	Here in the Detroit Craigslist you will find really nice late 80's - mid 90's 4 - 9.9 kickers. The 4hp's go for 300-500 while the upper hp's go for 600 - 900. Almost all are nonrebuilds. The nice thing is they are freshwater which helps greatly increase the life of the motors. If you have a look and find something here in Detroit let me know. I might be willing to help with shipping. 1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive
themclos	#3  Posted on 01/22/07 - 11:02 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 81 Comments: 3 Joined: 12/11/05	Jeff, Thanks for your reply. I expect to be able to find something within driving distance, which will save me the shipping costs. But I appreciate your offer of assistance. It appears as if your market has similar pricing for used kickers. We have a number of lakes in my neck of the woods which will only allow motors 9.9HP or smaller, so I think the prospect of finding something in decent shape is reasonable. Dan
Jeff	#4  Posted on 01/22/07 - 11:07 AM
Member Posts: 1987 Comments: 34 Joined: 04/02/05	Dan No problem....had you been a month earlier I would have had a great 1989 4hp Mercury with less than 200 hours on it to offer. My father let it go for a song. 1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive
Joe Kriz	#5  Posted on 01/22/07 - 11:19 AM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	themclos, I paid $500 for my used 1988 Evinrude 8hp 'long shaft' kicker. It was a freshwater engine out of the Great Lakes area. Here is a current list of kicker engines although I realize you don't want to buy new. http://www.whalercentral.com/readarti...ticle_id=7 I would recommend something newer than the 50's or 60's if you are going to buy something. Minimum of the 1980's unless you want to be nostalgic.... I would also recommend a 'Long Shaft" kicker and get rid of that knuckle and back breaking bracket. The brackets just make the engine bounce around more and are a real pain in the neck in my opinion. Whaler even recommended to mount the kicker right on the transom. [img]http://users.sisqtel.net/jkriz/Montauk/rear-inside.jpg[/img] Edited by Joe Kriz on 01/22/07 - 11:22 AM
Jeff	#6  Posted on 01/22/07 - 12:12 PM
Member Posts: 1987 Comments: 34 Joined: 04/02/05	Joe, I also agree about vintages of the motors as well as the long shaft. However, If there is already a kicker plate mounted you many as well use it and go with a short shaft kicker. 1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive
Joe Kriz	#7  Posted on 01/22/07 - 12:22 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Jeff, I know everyone is different. However, if you buy a short shaft, then you are stuck with it. You ever try starting a kicker when it is hanging out the back of the boat on a bracket bouncing around? The kicker mounted on the transom is much more solid and puts the engine within reach for starting purposes. And, moving the bracket up and down is not something I want to do anymore. Myself, I would definitely take the bracket off, fill any holes, and then mount a long shaft kicker right on the transom. This also keeps the power head well above water as opposed to the short shaft on a bracket. See: Filling Transom Holes If you ever buy another boat, then the long shaft will probably be more suited to the next boat also. As you can see, I am strongly against a bracket unless there is no other way possible. I would also use a solid bracket instead of an adjustable or up and down bracket if there was no other choice. Here is an example of the solid bracket made by Tanner. Look at the bottom of the page. http://www.tannermfg.com/tannermfg.htmnermfg.htm In this case, on a Montauk, there is a choice, and that choice would be to put the kicker right where it belongs, on the transom. Of course, if he already owned a short shaft kicker, then yes, mount it on the existing bracket or make a solid bracket and use the same bracket mounting holes. Edited by Joe Kriz on 01/22/07 - 1:15 PM
Jeff	#8  Posted on 01/22/07 - 2:10 PM
Member Posts: 1987 Comments: 34 Joined: 04/02/05	Joe, Ya I have started a kicker on a bracket. First I would start it then extend it out and down. That helped with the bouncing motor extended out from the transom. Lots here I the great lakes including some sailors will use the short shaft on a adjustable bracket because they can also use the motor on their inflatable or on their Aluminum hunt and fish boats. Also short shafts sell better around here than long shafts.... 1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive
Joe Kriz	#9  Posted on 01/22/07 - 2:22 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Jeff, Good point on using the short shaft motor on other boats that a person might have.
themclos	#10  Posted on 01/22/07 - 2:32 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 81 Comments: 3 Joined: 12/11/05	Joe, Thanks for the sound advice. I have looked at your old Montauk setup in the past. I had not considered the longer term ramifications of owning a short shaft kicker. Although I have promised my wife it is several years off, I am looking forward to the day when I will be asking for advice on my 20' or 22' Outrage or Revenge :) I am concerned about weight as well, which is another reason (besides cost) that I have not considered 9.9 HP 2 strokes or newer 4 strokes. It is an option to remove the bracket and repair the 4 holes. Since the bracket was there, I thought I would use it. There are many things to consider. Another is that I have a Yamaha 2-stroke 70HP on the boat, so I am not mixing oil. Being able to use the same gas and not mix oil with the kicker is very desirable. I have about 2 more months before I de-winterize, so that leaves plenty of time to continue the search. There are a couple of marine shops that cater to the lake fishing crowd and I expect I will be able to find something. I will let you know which way I decide to go. I appreciate the feedback. Dan
Joe Kriz	#11  Posted on 01/22/07 - 2:47 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Dan, I agree with you about mixing oil. I also had an oil injected 70 hp Evinrude on my Montauk. That is why I chose to add the oil injection for the kicker. This way I could use straight gas from either of my two 12 gallon tanks. The oil injection system (AccuMix) was made for the OMC engines. They could also work on some other models. Mercury also made one... If you look at my photo above, you will see the AccuMix system for just the kicker. Also, check out this article on the AccuMix: http://www.whalercentral.com/readarti...icle_id=26 I hate mixing fuel so that is why I chose the AccuMix. I also did not want a 4 Stroke back there due to weight, although some models are fairly light. My kicker weighs 58 lbs.... Not bad for an 8 hp outboard motor.
Doug V	#12  Posted on 01/22/07 - 6:17 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 340 Comments: 3 Joined: 09/21/05	I agree with Joe concerning removing the bracket and mounting the kicker motor directly on the transom. When I bought my Sakonnet some 16 odd years ago, it had a bracket on it. I was familiar with using my brother in law's Montauk with a long shaft 6 HP kicker. That was such a sweet set up from an operators standpoint that there was no question as to how I was going to set up the Sakonnet. You won't be disappointed by removing the bracket. Doug Vazquez
dmrose	#13  Posted on 02/16/07 - 12:38 PM
Member Posts: 92 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/14/06	Joe, Sorry, but definately showing my "newbieness" here. What can I say, I'm just fly fishing guide lookin to get off the beach and onto the water! 1. The picture of the back of your boat in this thread shows a white bottle mounted upright, to what purpose does this serve? 2. I've read that positioning the primer bulb close to the motor and in an upright position provides for better flow. I see that setup on the kicker but I'm curious if your main engine primer bulb is like mine and positioned near the tank. Thanks and feel free to PM if this is off topic. Dylan
Joe Kriz	#14  Posted on 02/16/07 - 12:52 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Dylan, 1. The white bottle is an AccuMix system for the kicker engine. This way I never mix any oil in any of the fuel as the main engine has the VRO. See this article on the AccuMix for smaller engines.. http://www.whalercentral.com/readarti...icle_id=26 2. My primer bulb for the main engine was always mounted at the tank(s) under the RPS. I never had any trouble but if I had it to do over again, I would mount it near the engine in an upright position like the kicker primer bulb in the photo above.
wywhaler	#15  Posted on 02/16/07 - 2:41 PM
Member Posts: 7 Comments: 1 Joined: 01/01/07	Dan: I'm in the process of putting a kicker on my 2007 Montauk. The transom/rubrail is different from the pre-2002 Montauk. Since I need to use a bracket, I have to make sure that the Hull ID Number located on the starboard transom is visible if law enforcement needs to see the number. I'm not sure what model you have nor what your state requires but I'd make sure the HIN is visable. Good luck with your project. Ron
jbfla	#16  Posted on 02/16/07 - 6:46 PM
Member Posts: 9 Comments: 0 Joined: 02/01/07	The engines listed on the kicker list are from 8 to 15 hp. Does that mean a 6hp would be inadequate on a 17' classic Montauk? Thanks. jb
Joe Kriz	#17  Posted on 02/16/07 - 6:53 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	jbfla, No, it doesn't. At the top of the list I stated that the newer kickers below 8 hp are mostly single cylinder engines. There have been too many reports of vibration from a single cylinder engine so that is why they are not listed. Use the single cylinder engines at your own discretion.
jbfla	#18  Posted on 02/16/07 - 7:07 PM
Member Posts: 9 Comments: 0 Joined: 02/01/07	Joe Kriz wrote:Use the single cylinder engines at your own discretion. Thanks, I saw the note, but did not realize the six hp's were single cylinder. It's been a long time since I had an engine that small. jb
Joe Kriz	#19  Posted on 02/16/07 - 7:20 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	jb, I would also like to note that some 4 stroke kickers create a harmonic vibration throughout the boat. It doesn't mean the engine is bad, it just sets up a vibration throughout the boat and makes everything vibrate including the bow and side rails... Sounds like a rattle trap. I had a 1999 or 2000 Evinrude 8 hp 4 stroke kicker on my Montauk for 1 week.... Then I took it back and purchased a used 1988 Evinrude 2 stroke... No more harmonic vibrations...