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Have some of the concerns about ethanol been overstated?
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| fishrswim |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 3:21 PM
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They're not idiots. Don't underestimate them. Follow the money. Billions in subsidies for the ethanol industry. Millions in "contributions" to politicians. If you don't have the big bucks you don't get to play. The game's over. We lost. Get ready for more of the same.
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 4:16 PM
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CES wrote:
The only thing we can do Gam is vote the idiots out of office that are for this ethanol crap. Pure gas is the only way to go and in actuality is better for the environment.
Ethanol and this discussion is at the very bottom of the list of reasons for voting these IDIOTS out although I do agree.
I do know we should never resort to politics or religion here at WC but enough is enough and I can't afford 4 more years of this lunacy and I doubt there are many here who can!
I could easily have my vintage Montauk in the water right now all finished and looking great but I can't afford to do it and it would not be worth half of what it should be if I did.
Back to the dam barn until these fools are gone! Maybe Algeria will take them along with Quadafi.
So sorry but also so sad at all of this in my life time. If we continue to elect fools what does that make us?
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| Phil T |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 4:22 PM
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Let's get back to question and put the politics on the shelf.
While we now know about the ethanol's reaction to the resin an fiberglass fuel tanks as well as degradation of some rubber materials (i.e. Verado FSM diaphragm) there has been blame for other problems.
An aquaintance, let's call him Mr. A, claimed that E-10 caused his engine to "blow". There was no clear diagnosis and proof.
It could be he had old gas, ran without a water separator filter, or had an underlying problem. It was a late 80's Yamaha 130.
I personally ran a 25 yr old motor on E-10 for 200 hrs and never had a problem.
It's hard to tell sometimes without some hard facts.
Edited by Phil T on 08/21/11 - 4:25 PM
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 5:27 PM
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Phil T wrote:
Let's get back to question and put the politics on the shelf.
While we now know about the ethanol's reaction to the resin an fiberglass fuel tanks as well as degradation of some rubber materials (i.e. Verado FSM diaphragm) there has been blame for other problems.
An aquaintance, let's call him Mr. A, claimed that E-10 caused his engine to "blow". There was no clear diagnosis and proof.
It could be he had old gas, ran without a water separator filter, or had an underlying problem. It was a late 80's Yamaha 130.
I personally ran a 25 yr old motor on E-10 for 200 hrs and never had a problem.
It's hard to tell sometimes without some hard facts.
"Let's get back to question and put the politics on the shelf."
I will agree 100% here at a boating forum Phil but let us never lose sight that herein lies the problems with all of this. When we all put politics on the shelf we get what we deserve and this is the last word I will say about Ethanol and all this foolishness.
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| John Fyke |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 6:24 PM
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This topic has gotten very political and has no bussiness here.
John Fyke
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| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 6:37 PM
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What is pure gas? Gasoline formulations have been a moving target for decades. What about the additions of liquid butane during the cooler seasons? Anyone realize it even happens and the effect on potential energy per a given unit? Big surprise, the gasoline you buy in the dead of winter likely isn't the same formulation you buy in the summer.
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| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 7:07 PM
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Gamalot wrote:
JohnnyCW wrote:
wezie wrote:
Possibly, you have not experienced anything you had to replace, yet; however, you have at least experienced a loss of efficiency. That is documented.
10% to 20% loss.
10 gallons == 9 or even 8 gallons.
You are throwing away $4.00 to $10.00 each 10 gallons. Not including the increased cost at the fuel pump and the tax pump! Maybe $1.00/G.
That problem, you have experienced!
10-20% loss with E10? From what source does that information come? It is dramatically different from the 3-4% difference I documented with my own vehicle on a long summer vacation taking my family out west a few years ago. Now E85, that was closer to a 20% loss.
I refuse to waste my time posting links that no one will read but here is just one from the many thousands easily found by searching "The truth about Ethanol".
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/technologies_and_fuels/biofuels/the-truth-about-ethanol.html
I suppose I may have missed something but the link you posted has nothing related to the quotes in your post. specifically about the efficiency difference between ethanol blended gasoline and non-ethanol blended gasoline.
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| fishrswim |
Posted on 08/26/11 - 8:56 PM
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I'm no supporter of ethanol. but purely on a BTU per gallon basis, using E10 will result in a 5% loss of efficiency. Using E15 will result in a loss of 7.5%. That's because a gallon of ethanol contains about 50% of the energy of a gallon of gasoline. Do the math yourself.
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| fishrswim |
Posted on 08/26/11 - 9:07 PM
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jimmyrinaldi wrote:
i just replaced a 1992 24 gallon aluminum tank that was eaten up from E10... It's just a matter of time...
What other metal was in the tank or touching the exterior of the tank?
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| mtown |
Posted on 08/27/11 - 5:17 AM
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Just came across this discussion and have to add my two cents. I have owned outboard powered boats for 25+ years, and owned Force, Mercury and Yamaha 70-200 HP motors. Had my share of mechanical issues over the years, but NEVER had gas gel in the carbs until ethonal was introduced. Since then I have spent well over $1000 just in having my carbs removed,cleaned and reassembled on my 115 and 200 Yamaha two strokes. So far the 115 Yamaha 4-stroke with fuel injection has not had the issue. In March I decided to replace the squeeze ball on that boat, and when I purchased the new one the sales person said "you too huh?". When I asked what he meant, he said that they had sold dozens of new squeeze balls as people found that they had disolved from the inside out over the winter. Then in July on another boat my squeeze ball disolved one night and since it was lower than the above deck tank it siphoned 15 gallons of fuel which was filling my 16'6" to about 6" deep the next morning. Thankfully I have no bilge pump or it would have ended up in the creek.
The mechanic that has done my carbs the last two times has been in business 30+ years [father/son and totally honest]. They tell me that over half their work is ethonal related. Finally, I use stabalizer all the time and disconnect the fuel line now and let the motor run out of fuel if I am not going to use the motor for a while.
I recently purchased non ethonal fuel for my chain saws and 9.9 Yamaha. I will be interested to see how it stores. I paid 20 cents a gallon extra for that gas and would do so all the time as it would ultimately save money. Bottom line: If ethonal is so great, 1. Why are we subsidizing it? 2. Why are we not allowed to choose whether or not to purchase it?
Since it is the government that has mandated these issues, and government is politicians and their decisions that require certain behaviors and actions by us, it is inevitable that this discussion will involve politics.
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| CES |
Posted on 08/27/11 - 5:29 AM
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Well said mtown!!
Just yesterday I had to remove, disassemble, clean and reassemble a brand new (Dec '10) Holley 850 DP carburetor because of this ethanol crap. My fuel lines are deteriorating (only 8 months old) and where do you think the particles end up?? Yep, clogging my jets in the carb. What a mess.
Ethanol is NOT here to stay and we will see it phased out just like other failed substances that have been added to our fuels.
Edited by CES on 08/27/11 - 5:30 AM
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| John Fyke |
Posted on 08/27/11 - 5:54 AM
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If it's not Ethenol it will be something else.
John Fyke
Re-Fit or Reef It
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| jimmyrinaldi |
Posted on 08/27/11 - 7:40 AM
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r we still talking about this ?
ethanol bad... (unless on the rocks...)
gas good... (don't drink it !)
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| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 08/27/11 - 8:02 PM
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jimmyrinaldi wrote:
ethanol bad... (unless on the rocks...)
gas good... (don't drink it !)
lol, good summarization.
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| Bird |
Posted on 11/08/11 - 9:56 AM
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jimmyrinaldi wrote:
r we still talking about this ?
ethanol bad... (unless on the rocks...)
gas good... (don't drink it !)
LOL x2!
My personal experience in my two boats and all my neighbors boats (we all live right on the water and boat year around) with E10 gas is having to replace fuel lines with alcohol proof rubber hoses (this was a 1 time cost) and the fuel primer bulbs once a year added tou our list of annual maintenance items. What happens is that the ethanol acts as a solvent and lifts the goo in the bottom of the tanks and this clogs the check valve in the primer bulb. We all have fuel water separators (except my 13 sport), run Stabil or Star Tron and use addtional fuel additives (like Ring Free, Techron, B12 Chem Tool, Sea Foam) in our fuel tanks.
We have no choice in getting E10 or not, as we are in a 'non-attainment' area for EPA Air Quality Standards. Gasoline is indeed formulated different for the region you live in and the time of year, which also contributes significantly to the varying of a price per gallon before your state and fed govt tax the heck out of it.
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. |
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