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evinrude 100, 1979. no balls, overheating
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| MW |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 1:28 AM
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I was just reading on "The outboard wizard" forum that to "TEST" if you are in "Slow" mode, disconnect the "TAN" wires leading to the "Temp" sensor's, this should allow the engine to go past 2500 rpm (this person had a bad temp. sensor, it was discovered when they moved the wires leading to the temp sensor). The article also states that when in slow mode, the over heat alarm should trip "ON" but, I tested my "Alarm" and it worked with every test, then again, I didn't do a bench test with a known water temp. for the sensor (proper controlled experiment), I by-passed the "Temp sensor" and grounded out the horn to test it. I'm thinking that this would show that the horn work's but, NOT the temp. sensor... Man, we're all over the place with this "one" LOL, but, I think we're gonna "Nail" it !
Matt |
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| theo |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 7:30 AM
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RevengeFamily wrote:
Outboards of this vintage, as long as the ignition system is healthy can run with a stone dead battery. . .
. . . you can have plenty of water exiting the water tell tale and have next to no water heading to the power head.
. . . Unless your battery will not hold a charge, save your money.
Norm
Thanks Norm. Makes good sense to me.
Ted
1985 15' CC, 1994 60 hp Merc (Wednesday built), 5" jack plate |
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| Mr T |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 7:52 AM
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RevengeFamily wrote:
theo wrote:
Just thinking about your battery. You drained it dead, then jumped it and went fishing. I wonder if the engine wasn't getting enough voltage to run the ignition? Weak spark might help explain loss of power, and poor timing could explain the pinging and the overheating. It pisses like a racehorse so doesn't that mean the thermostat isn't blocked?
Does the battery hold a charge? Can you swap a good battery in and see how it goes?
Outboards of this vintage, as long as the ignition system is healthy can run with a stone dead battery. They will generate their own power for the ignition sytem. There have been times where I've had a dead battery, turned the key to the run position, and pull started my 90hp on the second pull. It was a fantastic design.
As far as the cooling system is concerned, you can have plenty of water exiting the water tell tale and have next to no water heading to the power head. Very little water gets to the block if the thermostats are plugged. Once the engine warms, a healthy thermostat opens to allow cool water to flow. If your engine was overheating do to lack of coolant, the cylinders were RED hot. Your pinging (pre ignition) was caused by glowing pieces of carbon on the head that were igniting the fuel air mixture before the spark was firing. Unless your battery will not hold a charge, save your money.
Replace or remove your thermostats before you kill your engine.
Norm
Sounds like cooling to me as well.
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| SToomey006 |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 11:36 AM
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wow guys thankyou so much. So much to do/figure out. I need to first figure out what the thermostats look like. U were saying remove or replace them? So like i could remove them, see if this changes anything, if it does then replace them? and how do I tell if the horn works. or better yet where is it/what does it look like?
The battery is fine, went to charge it, its fully charged.
thanks again guys. Im going to go see if i can find the thermostats, and inspect the plugs now
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| Guts |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 11:48 AM
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or better yet where is it/what does it look like?
Horn...
You can see mine ( horn/over heating single) on the next to last picture and the third to last. It's black round with holes to the right of the aluminum backing plate for the hydraulic helm.
http://whalercentral.com/articles.php...icle_id=89
Edited by Guts on 07/07/09 - 11:49 AM |
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 12:03 PM
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The manual I have says that on V4 engines, the thermostat is located between the the two heads and just below the exhaust housing plate in a bakelite housing that contains the thermostat and and a bypass valve. Hope that helps narrow it down some...
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| SToomey006 |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 2:28 PM
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Ok so I just removed the spark plugs. All but one were what I understand to be fouled, which would make sense bc i second guessed myslef, stupidly, about how i mixed the oil as a possible reason for the overheat, and added another 4-5oz to the remaining 5 gallons or so. HOWEVER
When I got to the last plug, i see what understand to be a very bad sign. THe side electrode got mushed down so that its making contact with the center electrode. My manual says that "if the side electrode is bent down onto the center electrode, the piston is traveling too far upward in the cylinder and striking the spark plug. Such damage indicates the wrist pin or the rod bearing is worn excessively. In all cases, an engine overhaul is required to correct the condition. To verify the cause of the problem, turn the motor over by hand. As the piston moves to the full up position, push on the piston crown with a screwdriver inserted through the spark plug hole, and at the same time rock the flywheel back and forth. If any play in the piston is detected, the engine must be rebuilt."
THe italicized part is the part i dont understand. Like as in, what exactly is play? Won't the piston be moving when I rock the flywheel back and forth? If this is true, what its saying is i should be able to rock it and not get an equal response from the piston, like there will be some play in it, like a steering wheel so to speak? Please excuse my ignorance.
Also, how do I know when the piston is all the way in the "full up position"?
And finally, would this explain all of my problems?
-no balls
-what i thought was "pinging" (but remember it didn't
always "ping".
-overheating
And could I have done this when I jump-started it? Or could it be related to the fact that the battery was pulling a hell of a charge off the charge coil? Doesn't seem related to me, but i'm really just trying to look on the bright side, as "engine rebuild" is a scary concept for me.
Again thank you all so much for your help.
-Sean
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| SToomey006 |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 2:35 PM
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Derwd24 wrote:
The manual I have says that on V4 engines, the thermostat is located between the the two heads and just below the exhaust housing plate in a bakelite housing that contains the thermostat and and a bypass valve. Hope that helps narrow it down some...
I believe I know the plate you are refering to. Not sure if I'm mistaking the exhaust housing plate with the "backelite housing". For now bc its starting to rain and I found this damaged spark plug, i'm going to cover her back up.
On another note, in order to guarantee this is a problem with the wrist pin or rod bearing, after performing the test I spoke of with the screwdriver, if there's no "play". SHould I replace the plug and try again with a full charged battery? Or is it too risky, and I could possibly do more damage than I have already done.
-Sean
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 3:37 PM
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You could put a different plug in that suspect cylinder and just turn the flywheel manually with a socket and 1/2" drive. If the piston hits that plug electrode, you know there's an issue for sure.
I'd recommend pulling the heads, or at least that one. You can get clearer visual confirmation of what's going on and you'll have the piston above (or below depending) to compare it to.
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| RevengeFamily |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 4:45 PM
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If you want to find TDC (top dead center) for an individual cylinder use a pencil inserted through the spark plug hole. When the pencil stops moving out of the spark plug hole you have TDC.
I have jump started many outboards throughout the years. I have never had a poor outcome.
You need to address your problems with a clear head, When were your plugs last changed? The fouling could be a result of many hours of service, or caused by the fact that you think you over oiled your fuel. Clean them and try them again or just buy 4 new ones.
Replace or repair your thermastats, Clean the bypass, re-assemble and give her a try. I think you'll be happily surprised.
Norm
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| SToomey006 |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 7:00 PM
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I am going to pull the heads. I just put another plug in that cyl. doesnt seem to be hitting it. but how can i tell? Either way, if it doesnt hit it, theres got to be a reason it hit it in the first place. And I definetly didn't enjoy playing the game of trying to come back up the connecticut river on a moon outgoing tide on the kicker. lol nothing about that was fun. 
The mushed plug is clean. the other plugs, which were firing after i overmixed the gas, are all fouled. makes sense. and the plugs are under 20hrs old. Put them in under a month ago. battery holds a charge.
hope i answered any unanswered questions.
-Sean
Edited by SToomey006 on 07/07/09 - 7:13 PM |
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| Guts |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 8:50 PM
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What is the compression in the cylinders? I'm questioning the possibility of a minor seizure. If you do put this down this might be interesting.
http://www.smellofdeath.com/lloydy/pi..._guide.htm
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 9:46 PM
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Great article on reading the pistons Guts. I especially found the last 2 sentences enlightening, never thought of it that way before:
"When you add extra oil to the fuel you are effectively leaning the carb jetting. This can make the engine run hotter and seize."
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| Guts |
Posted on 07/07/09 - 10:04 PM
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Just the opposite.. lean oil mixture can cause this to happen.
Added
I have never seen a engine size from to much oil. it will smoke and foul the plugs before it seizes. The oil in two strokes lubricate and cool the engine, that's why they use so much fuel.
Edited by Guts on 07/07/09 - 10:26 PM |
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| MW |
Posted on 07/08/09 - 3:30 AM
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over-oiling the fuel will usually make starting difficult. From past mistakes, I have learned to mix my fuel like a "Chemist", I add "Carbon Guard", and a very "Little" bit of "Sea Foam" as a fuel preserver. I ate a ring once on my old 48spl and re-built it, a marine mechanic saw the chewed piston on my desk years later, I said "I guess I forgot to oil the fuel but, I coulda sworn I did it", he stated that the piston was NOT blued, so oil was added, he said that on "Evinrudes" (he knew it was an Evinrude, I never told him) carbon build's up on the ring until it grab's a clip near the cylinder wall and "Crunch", common problem on Evinrudes, and that "Carbon Guard" should ALWAYS be used. He said that "Carbon" was the #1 enemy of outboard's.
Matt |
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| theo |
Posted on 07/08/09 - 7:33 AM
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Sean, you're right about the rocking motion test. If the wrist pin or rod bearing (or both) are gone you will be able to move the crank back and forth without moving the piston. If the bearings are still intact the piston will move at the same time as the crank - no play at all.
It will be easier to tell with the heads off. Let us know what you find. Something smashed that plug. It's possible some carbon buildup broke loose and did it. That's the happy ending I'm hoping for. Scrape it clean and put it back together.
Ted
1985 15' CC, 1994 60 hp Merc (Wednesday built), 5" jack plate |
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| SToomey006 |
Posted on 07/08/09 - 6:27 PM
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Cool that sounds like a good plan to me. I should have a chance to do it tomorrow I hope. Any precautions as far as, I rem someone saying they powerwashed their motor b4 taking the heads off to prevent any foreign materials from entering the cylinders when you take it appart. THink he was talking about car motors though. I was figuring that would be too much pressure on the wires, however maybe some of that engine gunk remover/foaming spray or whatever it is then rinse with the hose...?
And just anything I need to be aware of? (Never done this before so just want to prevent any avoidable mistakes)
-Sean
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| Guts |
Posted on 07/08/09 - 7:10 PM
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What is the compression in the cylinders? post # 32
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| SToomey006 |
Posted on 07/08/09 - 7:42 PM
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not sure. just had it worked on a month ago bc of a no spark mystery, and had him check the compression first. he said "it passed with flying colors". im planning on getting a tester of my own once i have some more money.
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| Guts |
Posted on 07/08/09 - 8:24 PM
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Get one before you take it down, If I'm right ? this might tell you where to look. Just a guess as of what I have been reading here. But I would check the compression before I went further.
Just because he said [the compression first. he said "it passed with flying colors"] dose not mean that something didn't happen.
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