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2 Stroke VS 4 stroke?
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 02/09/09 - 7:02 PM
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Joe - your message sneaked in on me, but the article I referenced may give some of those reasons you are looking for, from actual testing as opposed to plain brand loyalty. And this from an old 2-stroke fan like me. I own 7 of them!!
It would also be interesting to know why Boston Whaler has abandoned Mercury 2-stroke Optimax engines completely, only offering 4-strokes.
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 02/09/09 - 7:30 PM
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Interesting article Larry but then again, it is only for one HP motor, the 50...
For the sake of this thread, I am looking for advantages of one platform over the other.
I have already listed some.
Other minor differences or advantages like:
How quiet?
How much smoke?
is nit picking and that is not what I am looking for.
You can say for example, that Honda has less smoke than any other outboard motor on the market but this wouldn't be true. I am looking at the entire lineup across the board. 2 strokes and 4 strokes and all CARB 3 rated.
I was always a Chevy truck man. I recently bought a Ford truck.
Both are good trucks. I can list advantages of both.
But this is not a truck website.
All I am looking for is what advantage is there for the 4 stroke over the new 2 strokes?
Again, both are CARB 3 rated in this discussion.
All are quiet.
All are virtually smokeless, etc...
What valid advantages can anyone here put on the list for either platform?
I have already given several advantages of the new 2 strokes. I can think of another to add to the list but seems pointless if no one can give me any advantages of a 4 stroke over a 2 stroke.
It really can't be that hard if there are any advantages to the 4 strokes... Can it?
I'm sure all of us could list the advantages of long pants over bermuda shorts or visa versa.
Just about everything has some kind of advantage or disadvantage over something else in its class.
Why is it so hard here for someone to list an advantage of a 4 stroke over a new 2 stroke?
It is not necessary to defend you motor here. Just list an advantage.
For those of you just starting to read this, please go back and start from the beginning so you get the whole story.
No one is putting down one platform or the other. I am honestly looking for the valid advantages of one platform or the other.
Still no points for the 4 strokes yet...
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| womms |
Posted on 02/10/09 - 9:25 AM
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Joe, why so fired up? I'm not sure why you are so set on discrediting the value of 4 stroke technology, but those are some pretty enthusiastic posts. If you are looking for someone to give you the benefits of one technology over another, you should ask an engineer. My background is in biology, so I can't really debate this issue. All that I know is that I have been very pleased with my Honda. If I bought a Etec, I'm sure I would be equally as pleased. Evinrude, Yamaha, Honda, Mercury, Suzuki are all great choices. I could understand your position if there was a manufacturer that was selling an inferior product, but does not seem to be the case. Can't we all just get along? Ha.
You would like one advantage. OK, I don't have to buy 2 stroke oil. Oh, but I have to change my oil. OK. I don't have to find a place for an oil reservoir. How about that.
By the way, Joe, I really like your new avatar. Lookin' good.
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| jquigley |
Posted on 02/10/09 - 9:55 AM
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By the way, Joe, I really like your new avatar. Lookin' good.
Is that look Magnum or Blue Steel? I like the squint. As a former professional golfer, I know there are only three sure ways to tell a hustler...Squinty eyes, a dark tan, and a 1 iron. I assume you don't have a 1 iron so I think we are safe.
Ok now back on topic...
-John
Edited by jquigley on 02/10/09 - 9:58 AM |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 02/10/09 - 10:49 AM
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womms,
That's exactly what I was looking for.
Yes, last night I finally thought of the same thing as you did.
Advantages of a 4 stroke.
1. Don't have to find a place for an oil reservoir in the larger series motors above 90 hp.
2. Don't have to deal with 2 stroke oil.
I don't think anyone here so far is knocking one platform or the other. (not allowed)
I don't think anyone reading this entire thread can say I am discrediting the 4 strokes or the 2 strokes.
There are advantages to everything we use.
I can think of advantages of using boxer shorts over jockey shorts and visa versa...
After we settled the original poster questions, all I was looking for were some valid advantages of the new 2 stroke motors and also the valid advantages of the 4 stroke motors.
It seemed quite simple to me and nothing for anyone to get worked up about.
It seems there should be more advantages to either platform.
Easier to change props or water pump or something.
womms and jguigley,
I took off my sunglasses in my new avatar photo and squinted.
Tomorrow I am going out and buying a 1 iron.... 
Hey, what are the advantages of a 1 iron?
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| womms |
Posted on 02/10/09 - 12:07 PM
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Ahhh. I see now. I thought we were getting into a Mac vs. PC conversation, but in reality you were just looking for legitimate advantages.
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 02/10/09 - 12:56 PM
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womms,
Now we got it....
Finnegan,
Great question.
It would also be interesting to know why Boston Whaler has abandoned Mercury 2-stroke Optimax engines completely, only offering 4-strokes.
I can only take a guess here until Boston Whaler possibly releases any info on the subject.
Maybe it is due to some of the Optimax 2 stroke engines not being allowed to be sold in California.
Boston Whaler obviously wouldn't even send a boat and a motor to California if the engine/boat combination could not be sold here.
I put a link in a post above on which Mercury engines were not allowed to be sold in California.
This comes directly from Mercury.
http://www.mercurymarine.com/servicea...s/carb.php
I realize California is only one state but many states are looking at using cleaner engines in their waterways. Just like the automobile is looking at Electric, Hydrogen, and Solar power among other resources to propel our cars of the future.
As it stands right now, the cleanest outboards being sold are CARB 3 rated.
This is for both 4 strokes and 2 strokes.
Who knows what tomorrow will bring to the outboard motors.
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| jquigley |
Posted on 02/10/09 - 1:30 PM
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Hey, what are the advantages of a 1 iron?
There are none. This one is undisputed.
-John
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| moose |
Posted on 02/10/09 - 2:40 PM
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"Even God can't hit a one iron!"
Mike
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| Blue_Northern |
Posted on 02/10/09 - 2:52 PM
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Joe,
I ended up with a 150 Yami four stroke for my 19. I believe fuel economy is a definite advantage. In relation to my old 2 stroke engine I get the same gas mileage out of my 150hp 4strk as my 90hp 2strk. I do not have collected data to prove this but notice it every time I need to fill her up.
Another advantage of the 4 stroke is if you fish with a fat ass buddy the extra 50 lbs they weigh help level out the load if your buddy sits up front.  lol
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 02/10/09 - 3:20 PM
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Blue_Northern,
There is absolutely no question about the fact that the 4 strokes and the newer CARB 3 rated 2 strokes get better fuel economy than the older 2 strokes.
Basically the older 2 strokes are done, especially in California.
We are discussing the newer technology of the newer 2 strokes along with the CARB 3 rating of all outboards.
Many of you obviously don't live in California and at this time aren't forced to buy clean engines. However, here is one of my concerns for all the owners of outboards.
For example:
You live in Colorado. There are no restrictions on any lakes at this time. You go out and buy a brand new older technology 2 stroke. 3 months later your state puts a restriction on the lake that you normally go boating in. They now no longer allow you to boat in that lake without a cleaner engine like a CARB 2 or CARB 3 rated engine. What do you do now?
It seems that you have just bought a new engine for your boat that now is an anchor as you can't use it on the lake you frequent most.
As most of you are now aware from this post, that California has restrictions for outboards on many lakes. This could happen in your area.
So, what I am saying to protect yourself from this happening, buy a clean engine. Either a clean CARB 3 rated 2 stroke or a CARB 3 rated 4 stroke.
The reason I say CARB 3 rated, is some day here in California, some of these lakes may just up the anti.... They may decide to not let anything less on their lakes except for CARB 3 rated outboard motors.
If I go out now and buy a CARB 2 rated 4 stroke or 2 stroke now and they change the rules, I would be in the same position as my example above.
I don't want to put myself in that position. Do you?
Some states may never have to think about this. However, I think all states have some kind of SMOG (emission laws) for all of the automobiles. Some states may have grandfather clauses where you can still use your old and stinky automobile on the road up to a point.
These California lake laws do NOT have any grandfather clauses. Just because my grandfather may have boated there for 60 years with his old stinky 2 stroke, that is the end. No more. Clean motors only can be used.
Just trying to look at the big picture for everyone, especially those of us in California, that already have many rules and restrictions in use at many of our lakes.
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| ioptfm |
Posted on 02/10/09 - 5:41 PM
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This is one of the best and most active threads that I've seen in a long time and is very informative. It almost looks like it all boils down to preference when you compare the new 4 strokes vs the new 2 strokes.
Tom
1979 Sport 15' |
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| burtim |
Posted on 02/10/09 - 6:26 PM
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Laws are an interesting thing. They creep up on you. Twenty years ago I would never have believed someone if they said that my home state would ban smoking in bars. When someone goes out to have a drink and socialize with friends, they can no longer do it with a cigarette in hand. I don't smoke, and I don't try to change people when they choose to. You can argue politics and such, but as time goes on, more restrictions on our ability to do the things we may be used to doing now come into play. Joe is right, we just have to buy the cleanest power available if we want the freedom to boat anywhere. This "green" monster is growing and we will be part of it no matter what we might want as individuals. They say it's for our own good, right?
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