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New Motor for a 1974 Katama
Joe Kriz	#21  Posted on 08/13/13 - 8:31 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Brooke, Yes. If your top holes are standard according to the drawing, then just drill the green holes. The top holes can vary from 1 7/8 to 2" from the top but the green holes are drilled 6 1/2 down on center from the top holes per the drawing.
Brooke Lea	#22  Posted on 08/14/13 - 3:12 PM
Member Posts: 20 Comments: 0 Joined: 07/20/13	I showed the diagram to my installer. He said that the problem is that the lower bolts would have to be lag bolts, not through bolts, and that Bombardier won't warrantee the motor unless it is fastened with 4 through bolts. Therefore the jack plate (approx $300) is the best way to go. What do you think? Thanks, Brooke
Joe Kriz	#23  Posted on 08/14/13 - 3:17 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	That guy isn't looking at the diagram. Those Green holes are thru bolted. You might talk to a different installer who can read diagrams. Or, have him measure your blind holes now which are 6 inches down. Add 1/2 inch and you can see that the thru bolts will still be in the splashwell properly. The standard Red holes cannot be drilled as you cannot use thru bolts with the red holes. The Yellow holes can be a problem also with thru bolts. However, there is NO problem using thru bolts if he drills the GREEN holes. Several members here have their motor mounted using the Green holes and thru bolts. My only and last suggestion to you is to INSIST on him drilling the Green holes. It's your boat and you are buying the motor from them. Then tell him to mount the motor 2 holes up using all 4 thru bolts. The upper 2 and the lower 2 green holes. If he doesn't know what 2 holes up is, print this and take it to him. http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...cle_id=106 Edited by Joe Kriz on 08/14/13 - 3:42 PM
Finnegan	#24  Posted on 08/14/13 - 3:41 PM
Member Posts: 1926 Comments: 16 Joined: 05/02/08	I would not be making an expensive engine purchase from a delaership that is that dumb. It makes you wonder what else they don't know when it comes to service, etc.
Joe Kriz	#25  Posted on 08/14/13 - 3:46 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Good point Larry. Brooke, Print this thread out and have the installer read these posts. Maybe he will think twice about helping you properly. I'm sure he, or the owner of that establishment, doesn't want a reputation of not mounting the motor properly and installing it the way the owner wants. Just a thought.
Brooke Lea	#26  Posted on 08/14/13 - 4:33 PM
Member Posts: 20 Comments: 0 Joined: 07/20/13	I just visited the boatyard. Heres the deal. First, the transom is 22", not 20" as I had thought. Second, the green holes already exist from my previous motor. In order to use the green holes on the bottom, the top bolts would have to go through the fourth (lowest) of the four top bolt holes on the motor mount. That would put the prop unacceptably high and lead to performance issues. What do you think?
Joe Kriz	#27  Posted on 08/14/13 - 5:05 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	In order to use the green holes on the bottom, the top bolts would have to go through the fourth (lowest) of the four top bolt holes on the motor mount. That seems impossible. If the green holes are 6 1/2 inches down (On Center) from the top holes, then the top bolts would go thru the 3rd hole in the motor bracket, not the 4th. There is nothing wrong with the mounting bolts in the 4th hole either if that is what you already have. Many people recommend mounting this motor all the way up which is called 3 holes up. You need to measure the transom straight up and down, not at an angle flat on the transom. Measure like this | not like this \ You will find it is what is referred to a 20 inch transom like all the rest of the 16/17 Whalers have.
Brooke Lea	#28  Posted on 08/14/13 - 5:50 PM
Member Posts: 20 Comments: 0 Joined: 07/20/13	Joe, I measured the transom straight down to the bottom of fiberglass keel immediately below the drain hole. It was exactly 22". I measured 3 times because I was not expecting that measurement. I also measured 6.5" above the top of the bolt slot on the bottom of the mounting bracket. That put me right in the middle of the 4th (bottom) hole. I tried to get it to the 3rd hole, but assuming a .25" bolt in the bolt slot, it just doesn't make it past the 4th hole. The confusions I've had with the installer were due mostly to imprecise language. For example, "old boat" = non-standard transom height; "don't want to use lag bolt" = in order for the propeller to be low enough, the motor would have to be mounted in one of the top two hole slots, and therefore the bottom bolts would have to be below the green and yellow holes; etc. I measured everything multiple times with my own tape measure. Very surprised.
Tom W Clark	#29  Posted on 08/14/13 - 5:51 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	As Joe points out, the transom is 20" not 22". It's the height, not the distance along the transom, that you measure. Your "green holes" are not the green holes on our drawing. Go back and remeasure. Do not make this more complicated than it need to be. It is really very simple.
Joe Kriz	#30  Posted on 08/14/13 - 6:02 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	I guess I give up. You drill the green holes in the boat regardless of what the motor or bracket on the engine has. No need to measure the slot. Every motor is standard today and only the Merc has 5 upper mounting holes while the rest have 4. Your boat is no different then all the rest of the 16/17' hulls that many people mounted new motors on including the E-Tec. Old Boat? These were made until 2002. What is considered old? Good Luck and hope it works out for you. If you can post some photos and some measurements, then maybe some of us can help you further. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of your installer.
Brooke Lea	#31  Posted on 08/14/13 - 8:26 PM
Member Posts: 20 Comments: 0 Joined: 07/20/13	Just to be clear: I did NOT measure the distance from the top holes to the top of the transom (should be 1 7/8" according to the diagram). I only measured the distance between the top holes and the bottom holes (both were created for my former motor, a 70hp Johnson); that distance is exactly 6.5". So when I say that the "Green holes" were already drilled, all I know is the distance been the top holes and bottom holes is equivalent to the top holes and Green holes and the diagram (the holes in my boat were drilled back in the mid-1980's when the previous motor was installed in Hampton Bays, NY). I also can't vouch for the judgment that the E-Tec 90 mounted up on its #4 slot would be problematic for this boat. The boatyard guys treated this as common sense; a propeller mounted that high would be at risk for cavitation. That conclusion is based, in part, on the assumption of a 22" transom. Not sure what else to say about the transom measurement. If one were to put a lead weight on a string, and line up the bottom of the weight with the bottom of the rear keel, as gravity would dictate, then the distance from the bottom of the weight to the section of string as it passes the horizontal portion of the boat above the drain plug (transom) is, according to my Stanley measuring tape, 22". This is not what I wanted to find. I have no way of explaining it. The hull was made in 1974; not sure if Whalers had a different transom then. I'm guessing that if they did, you guys would be all over that. So these are the measurements we're dealing with here. I realize they don't match up with what you (or I) expect from 17' Whalers. With respect to the need for a jack plate, the only fact that would militate against its use in this case would be the knowledge that mounting a 2014 E-Tec 90 on its 4th hole on a transom that measures 22 vertical inches would not cause cavitation problems on a 1974 BW hull. Thanks for your comments and help. Apologies for presenting such a puzzling case. Brooke
Joe Kriz	#32  Posted on 08/14/13 - 8:50 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	So when I say that the "Green holes" were already drilled, all I know is the distance been the top holes and bottom holes is equivalent to the top holes and Green holes and the diagram (the holes in my boat were drilled back in the mid-1980's when the previous motor was installed in Hampton Bays, NY). Again, that just can't be. You seem to not be measuring from center of one hole to center of other hole. What you have from those days is the blind hole which is only 6 inches center to center and are wider apart then the green holes. You will have to fill those old black lower blind holes and drill the green holes 6 1/2 inched down on center and 9 7/8 inches wide from center to center. Your lower black blind holes are 10 3/4 wide center to center. Don't measure from the top of one hole to the bottom of another hole. ALL measurements are taken from the center of the holes. Note: all holes are 1/2 inch in diameter which is the mounting bolt size, 1/2 inch bolts. Apologies for presenting such a puzzling case No mystery at all. All transoms are 20 inches regardless of what anyone wants to measure. This is a know fact from Boston Whaler. 20 inch transom for a 20 inch Long Shaft motor. No mystery. No more need to measure the transom as everyone already knows it is 20 inches. Just measure the holes and get them right "ON CENTER" according to the drawing. You will find that your lower black holes are the blind holes that will need filling as they are not in the correct place. They are close to the Green holes but they will not work at all. Like I mentioned before, a photo of the transom and the holes will tell us more. It will also tells us if this is really a Whaler because I am now beginning to have my doubts due to the measurements. Edited by Joe Kriz on 08/14/13 - 9:04 PM
mtown	#33  Posted on 08/15/13 - 4:17 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 613 Comments: 5 Joined: 07/06/08	If you look for a recent thread posted by me "Raising motor on transom" it will give you info about my recent experience.
Joe Kriz	#34  Posted on 08/15/13 - 4:31 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	mtown, Here is your thread: http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...d_id=17750 Can you post a photo on your personal page of the inside of the transom with the new holes? Here is a photo of my prior 1978 model. There is ample room to drill the holes 1/2" further down then the blind holes that are in the photo. http://users.sisqtel.net/jkriz/Montau...inside.jpg If absolutely necessary, you could grind a washer flat on the bottom or bend it according to this Whaler drawing. http://www.whalercentral.com/images/B...t10-84.png
kamie	#35  Posted on 08/15/13 - 4:59 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	Brooke Please supply the following measurements Top of the transom to the center of the top bolt holes? distance between the top bolt holes, center to center distance between your lower two holes, center to center top of the transom to the center of your lower holes To measure center to center, measure from the outside of one hole to the inside of the other hole, like this |(-)-----------|( ) As Joe said, a photo will be helpful. It is possible that mounting holes for the old outboard were done wrong, but worked for that engine. With the correct prop you can mount the e-tec 3 holes up with no issues.
Petrus	#36  Posted on 08/15/13 - 11:27 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 179 Comments: 0 Joined: 10/08/12	I have the holes according to the drawing with the green holes and it works perfectly fine. See last picture on my personal page. It will work! Like everybody else says here. (Note , mine is only mounted one hole up and even that works) Are you sure that the center of the upper holes are 1 7/8" from the top of the transom, i.e. did the upper bolts go through the top holes in the engine bracket (if the bracket was all down to the top of the transom)? I also put a stainless steel plate on the inside (and outside) to distribute the load. I have a pdf-drawing if anyone would like to have (but dimensions are metric though) Edited by Petrus on 08/16/13 - 1:09 AM 1997 Montauk 17, Suzuki DF90A
Brooke Lea	#37  Posted on 08/16/13 - 5:16 PM
Member Posts: 20 Comments: 0 Joined: 07/20/13	Got my Whaler back today. I remeasured the transom and, as before, it clocks in at 22" (21.75" to be exact). 20" barely gets you to the top of the drain. See attached pics. I'd love to see similar measurements from those of you with 16 Whalers. Also attached are full pics of the boat. Brooke P.S. How do you attach pics?
Joe Kriz	#38  Posted on 08/16/13 - 5:21 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Just put a link to your photos like I've done in several posts above.
Brooke Lea	#39  Posted on 08/16/13 - 5:35 PM
Member Posts: 20 Comments: 0 Joined: 07/20/13	file:///C:/Users/macalester/Desktop/1974%20Whaler%20Transom%202.jpg (copy link into browser)
Joe Kriz	#40  Posted on 08/16/13 - 5:38 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	You would need to have your photos posted somewhere like photobucket, imageshack, etc.. Photos won't link from your computer to the Internet.