|
Have some of the concerns about ethanol been overstated?
|
| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 6:22 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 1086
Comments:
3
Joined: 06/21/10
|
jimmyrinaldi wrote:
if u can find pure gas on this site then make the trip !!!
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=MS
Good luck with this! "Federal Regulations" are putting them all out of business and don't be surprised when you make the trip to find no real gas.
I just clicked on NY and almost every place that still claims to have real gas is either an Indian reservation or a marina. What might that tell us?
|
| |
|
|
| CES |
Posted on 08/19/11 - 7:37 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Photo Albums
Project Albums
Posts: 2681
Comments:
7
Joined: 04/27/07
|
I regularly run E-10 in my jet boat as it's the only crap I can get around here. However when I run it in Oklahoma and use their "real gas" I pick up 3-4 mph on the top end and also notice much better throttle response as well.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
| |
|
|
| Geo |
Posted on 08/20/11 - 7:06 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 104
Comments:
4
Joined: 11/05/08
|
My bowler hat is starting to get itchy!
|
| |
|
|
| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 08/20/11 - 10:34 AM
|
Member
Posts: 684
Comments:
0
Joined: 08/16/09
|
Its too bad this topic seems to have gotten a bit argumentative so quickly. I was simply posting my personal experience. We've all heard and read the rhetoric about ethanol the last few years. None of it that has been posted here is new.
I do my own annual pm on my boats which includes draining a couple gallons from the bottom of the tanks and inspecting them with a camera the last few years. None of my tanks show any signs of corrosion including my 21 year old Whaler.
I've enjoyed better reliability the last few years than any of the previous 30 years of boat ownership. However I also attribute that reliability to the modern fuel systems of today's motors. Gosh knows I don't miss rebuilding carbs every few seasons.
Folks had marine fuel system issues long before E10. I've seen corroded tanks before E10. I've seen water come out of tanks before E10, I've seen badly deteriorated fuel lines before E10. The difference today is, anytime any of those issues crop up now, its always ethanol's fault.
I think most reasonable people believe ethanol in our fuel isn't a good thing. My point of starting this topic was that I haven't experienced the doom and gloom a lot of folks like to preach every time ethanol gets mentioned and its not because I haven't been on the lookout for it.
Get ready, E15 is around the corner.
|
| |
|
|
| jimmyrinaldi |
Posted on 08/20/11 - 10:48 AM
|
Member
Posts: 212
Comments:
3
Joined: 11/29/07
|
Thats too bad. I have found it reliable in MS. Maybe you need to move to a state with fewer liberals... ; )
|
| |
|
|
| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/20/11 - 11:05 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 1086
Comments:
3
Joined: 06/21/10
|
If discussing our own personal experiences and opinions is considered to be "Argumentative" then what's the need to have open forums?
I enjoy hearing from others who have had good experiences with particular products but this is not how I base my decisions as to if I shall buy them.
I would highly prefer to have the real gas from days past and to stop all this uncertainty. Just because something is claimed to be "New & Improved" does not make it so.
There are 3 sides to every story and somewhere in the middle lies the truth!
|
| |
|
|
| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 08/20/11 - 11:37 AM
|
Member
Posts: 684
Comments:
0
Joined: 08/16/09
|
Gamolt I don't think anyone is asking you to base your own decisions on what is posted in this thread.
Bring back tetraethyl lead I say! lol
|
| |
|
|
| whalerman |
Posted on 08/20/11 - 11:49 AM
|
Member
Posts: 540
Comments:
5
Joined: 06/26/07
|
Whats really amazing is the fed gov. demanding more mpg from cars, trucks (light duty and heavyduty rating), boats and raising the ethanol in gas, to E15, which diminishes the goal mpg numbers the feds are looking for. 2012 guys, 2012!! Let me add to my earlier post, when I do buy gas it is in the late afternoon only and treat the fuel before putting into the jugs. Don't take boat to gas station, too many people not paying attention these days and don't want to be rear ended. I use a filter funnel when decanting into the boats tank. Reason that I only take fuel in late afternoon is a lesson learned with diesel trucks in the past and geting water in the morrning fuel ups. I use the regular red sta-bil all the time and so far this ritual has worked for me,so far. I would love REAL gas again, for my engines. I have seen first hand the effects of this stuff thats being shoved at us with the various lawn mowers,trimmers,generators etc. 2012 guys, 2012!!
Edited by whalerman on 08/20/11 - 11:51 AM
THOM : 1999 Outrage 18, 2012 E-TEC 150, 2012 EZ Loader trailer |
| |
|
|
| John Fyke |
Posted on 08/20/11 - 11:55 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 1307
Comments:
0
Joined: 09/06/06
|
Anyone against ethenol is delirious. It's here. Just do you maintenance.
John Fyke
Re-Fit or Reef It
1979 15' Sport with Super Sport conversion and 70hp mercury. |
| |
|
|
| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/20/11 - 7:19 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 1086
Comments:
3
Joined: 06/21/10
|
I've been delirious for a few years now and ethanol is just a small part of it. I do hope to get some relief in 2012.
I am still waiting to hear someone tell us what the real benefits of ethanol are. Just some simple stuff will do like does your engine run better or cleaner? Can you go further on less? Is it saving us any cash? Will our engines run for longer? Have we saved the planet yet? Do all the tractors that tend the fields to grow all this additional corn run on ethanol fuel? Is Al Gore your Uncle Al? If everything that comes out of Washington DC is so good for us then why are we in such dyer straights right now?
The fuels we burn in our motors has a heck of a lot more to do with politics than anything related to our boating pleasures and I still have not heard from anyone here about how great the ethanol being shoved down our tanks really is. I've been involved with internal combustion engines for nearly 50 years and the fuels we use in them have been a political pawn right along. Those of us old enough will remember back when AMMOCO White gas was the only fuel to use in our outboard motors. Why is unleaded gas more expensive than leaded gas? It is not like they have to take the lead out!
|
| |
|
|
| jimmyrinaldi |
Posted on 08/20/11 - 7:59 PM
|
Member
Posts: 212
Comments:
3
Joined: 11/29/07
|
there r none... it links the price of corn to the price of oil which is stupid and dangerous for places in the world on the brink of starvation... it also eats plastic and aluminum...
i always try to but pure gas when I can...
Edited by jimmyrinaldi on 08/21/11 - 9:21 AM |
| |
|
|
| wezie |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 7:34 AM
|
Member
Posts: 109
Comments:
0
Joined: 05/12/07
|
Possibly, you have not experienced anything you had to replace, yet; however, you have at least experienced a loss of efficiency. That is documented.
10% to 20% loss.
10 gallons == 9 or even 8 gallons.
You are throwing away $4.00 to $10.00 each 10 gallons. Not including the increased cost at the fuel pump and the tax pump! Maybe $1.00/G.
That problem, you have experienced!
Glass containers might really be the answer.
Each tank, new and middle age, that I use, has a seal, hose, gasket, or something that has swelled. These things did not happen previously in any notable frequency. Fuel valve on small outboard, vents on 6 gallon tanks, gaskets on weed eater, etc.
Products Designed For Alcohol!
This too is an easy knee jerk term. In the fuel system, there will always be something that did not make the cut.
With Everything being imported, we will never know what it really is made of.
The costs of these problems, you have encountered!
This all would not bother me much if it only applied to you; however the total loss/cost/etc is huge and unnecessary, and is another tax on our economy.
Good Luck.
|
| |
|
|
| CES |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 8:36 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Photo Albums
Project Albums
Posts: 2681
Comments:
7
Joined: 04/27/07
|
Ethanol "enhanced" fuel cost me $100's more per year ti use without any additional gain for my extra $$.
Wezie, well said brother. Thank you for your wisdom.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
| |
|
|
| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 8:44 AM
|
Member
Posts: 684
Comments:
0
Joined: 08/16/09
|
wezie wrote:
Possibly, you have not experienced anything you had to replace, yet; however, you have at least experienced a loss of efficiency. That is documented.
10% to 20% loss.
10 gallons == 9 or even 8 gallons.
You are throwing away $4.00 to $10.00 each 10 gallons. Not including the increased cost at the fuel pump and the tax pump! Maybe $1.00/G.
That problem, you have experienced!
10-20% loss with E10? From what source does that information come? It is dramatically different from the 3-4% difference I documented with my own vehicle on a long summer vacation taking my family out west a few years ago. Now E85, that was closer to a 20% loss.
|
| |
|
|
| lrak |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 9:22 AM
|
Member
Posts: 62
Comments:
0
Joined: 09/08/07
|
Gamalot wrote:
I am still waiting to hear someone tell us what the real benefits of ethanol are.
Lots of newspapers/websites have already told you. There are two benefits. 1) Where oxygenates are required to reduce smog, ethanol is less bad then MTBE. 2) Adding it to the fuel of the other 98% of the country as well, increases profits of ADM, Monsanto, Dupont, ethanol plant investors, etc. It also wins votes in the Iowa Primary.
That said, I haven't experienced any issues other than a loss of mileage in any of my engines.
|
| |
|
|
| jimmyrinaldi |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 10:16 AM
|
Member
Posts: 212
Comments:
3
Joined: 11/29/07
|
this discounts the energy required to produce ethanol...
Edited by jimmyrinaldi on 08/21/11 - 10:16 AM |
| |
|
|
| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 11:19 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 1086
Comments:
3
Joined: 06/21/10
|
JohnnyCW wrote:
wezie wrote:
Possibly, you have not experienced anything you had to replace, yet; however, you have at least experienced a loss of efficiency. That is documented.
10% to 20% loss.
10 gallons == 9 or even 8 gallons.
You are throwing away $4.00 to $10.00 each 10 gallons. Not including the increased cost at the fuel pump and the tax pump! Maybe $1.00/G.
That problem, you have experienced!
10-20% loss with E10? From what source does that information come? It is dramatically different from the 3-4% difference I documented with my own vehicle on a long summer vacation taking my family out west a few years ago. Now E85, that was closer to a 20% loss.
I refuse to waste my time posting links that no one will read but here is just one from the many thousands easily found by searching "The truth about Ethanol".
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/technologies_and_fuels/biofuels/the-truth-about-ethanol.html
Keep in mind always that we must sift through the tons written on this subject and then make our own decisions as to who or what to believe. For as many Scientists that claim the advantages we can easily find as many who write about the disadvantages. Kind of shoots Science right in the foot don't we think!
Do your own search and believe what you want after you spend some time reading. I have been repairing all my engines since Engine man school in 1970 courtesy of the USN. This does not make me an expert by any stretch but as far as I am concerned Ethanol is enriching many but not many here and it has not done one dam thing to reduce the junk in our air, just different junk that we need to study further. If your motors could speak I am absolutely certain they would say Ethanol tastes like $hit.
|
| |
|
|
| fishrswim |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 11:52 AM
|
Member
Posts: 168
Comments:
7
Joined: 05/25/11
|
Well, as I understand the problem, ethanol has about 50% of the energy of pure gasoline. If that's true, and I fill up with 20 gallons of E10 I'm buying two gallons of ethanol which provides the energy of one gallon of gas. In other words I'm buying 20 gallons but only getting the energy equivalent of 19. That should work out to a loss of about 5% in gas mileage. E15 just compounds the problem, you'll lose about 7.5%.
In dollars, I'm subsidizing the ethanol industry about $4 for each 20 gallons of E10 and $6 for E15.
|
| |
|
|
| Gamalot |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 12:40 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 1086
Comments:
3
Joined: 06/21/10
|
fishrswim wrote:
Well, as I understand the problem, ethanol has about 50% of the energy of pure gasoline. If that's true, and I fill up with 20 gallons of E10 I'm buying two gallons of ethanol which provides the energy of one gallon of gas. In other words I'm buying 20 gallons but only getting the energy equivalent of 19. That should work out to a loss of about 5% in gas mileage. E15 just compounds the problem, you'll lose about 7.5%.
In dollars, I'm subsidizing the ethanol industry about $4 for each 20 gallons of E10 and $6 for E15.
Your math is similar to the math used in DC. SO, how much more are you paying for the food on your table as a direct result from the corn going to your tanks instead of to your table?
There is one real reason why we have not yet gone to E-15, our engines are not yet ready to handle all the garbage! Years more of testing and studies will be required before we can go to higher Ethanol levels in our fuel and they are not even close to the real-------Honest---------Truth about E-10 and it's effects.
For every action there is an equal and opposite re-action! Do any of us honestly know the truth about ethanol? We cannot trust the scientists and we sure can't trust the politicians but I truly believe if we all had a choice at the pumps between real gas and ethanol laced fuel, the vast majority here would buy corn to eat!
|
| |
|
|
| CES |
Posted on 08/21/11 - 3:06 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Photo Albums
Project Albums
Posts: 2681
Comments:
7
Joined: 04/27/07
|
The only thing we can do Gam is vote the idiots out of office that are for this ethanol crap. Pure gas is the only way to go and in actuality is better for the environment.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
| |
|
