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Console side door
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| modenacart |
Posted on 02/15/11 - 6:19 PM
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Gary,
Is your side door just the three pieces, the top side and door?
I still have my old door so I can use that to template. All of them were just laying in the console so I am not really sure how they looked installed.
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
--Benjamin Franklin |
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 02/16/11 - 12:23 AM
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Actually 4 pieces. Hinge strip, door, drip edge above and a tiny square the hasp catch is mounted on to bring it to level with the door.
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 02/16/11 - 2:32 PM
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Having recently cleaned, sanded and varnished ALL of the original wood on the "winged" console that came with my 1975 Outrage 19, (stored unused for 30 years) I can tell you without question that all wood was teak, with no solid mahogany being used. (see my link to photos of my 19 Outrage in a previous post to this thread). All of the teak was "raw" from the factory, but the previous owner did oil it only once.
As for the two console teak marine plywood doors, and the teak plywood instument panels (which I replaced with solid 3/8" teak panels), the inside veneer was luan or philippine mahogany. As far as I know, all teak marine plywood that Boston Whaler has ever used had the luan mahogany interior veneer, up through my 1989 Outrage floor sump covers. That may be the only way it can be purchased? I have never seen two sided teak marine plywood, or maybe it was just too expensive for Whaler to use.
Any Whaler of this vintage that has varnished mahogany on the "winged" console is not original from the factory. The inside surface of the teak plywood doors was NOT varnished.
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 02/17/11 - 5:02 AM
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That sounds just about right from what I found Finnegan. I am just a little confused with 2 issues though.
I am referring only to the winged console side door here. Mine is Teak veneered on the front face and some other wood on the inside, possibly Mahogany. I do believe the edges and the inside have been varnished at some point while the front face was always oiled. Teak oil will not do much for protecting plywood or the Mahogany wood so what might BW have used in these spots?
My console has angled wood strips that act as drip caps above the doors to deflect water past the face of the doors. These strips appear to be varnished Mahogany but I can't be certain. I just don't think they are Teak.
Can you clarify any of this?
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 02/17/11 - 10:02 AM
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There is no drip edge over the stern facing lower door.
The drip edge over the side console door is teak.
On every piece of teak faced marine plywood that I have ever seen used on a Whaler, it was furnished plain on both sides and edge grain, not oiled nor varnished by the factory.
The teak plywood veneer doors on the winged console had no coating on them at all.
Because of the constant cleaning and sanding work of maintaining oiled teak, I now varnish all teak on my Whalers. this avoids sanding the veneers and sections down to nothing. In the long run, varnish holds up MUCH better, and looks better in my opinion.
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 02/17/11 - 10:27 AM
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I think you are right Finnegan. I just went out and checked my bare console and can see some evidence where a PO did varnish the back side of the side door.
I also did a little sanding on the drip strips and it probably is Teak. I was mistaken on the position of the longer strip and it goes on the top surface of the console's stern facing edge.
As I have said, my large door was missing when I got the boat but I will be able to duplicate one from good pictures and the outline that still remains on the console.
I prefer the look and feel of oiled Teak so we will disagree there but all is still good.
Are the winged consoles from your boat and my 1974 Montauk exactly the same in size? If so and you have a good picture of the stern facing door below the helm I sure would like it for a guide.
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| modenacart |
Posted on 02/17/11 - 12:56 PM
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All the winged consoles are the same.
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
--Benjamin Franklin |
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 02/17/11 - 4:06 PM
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If you look at photo #7 in the photobucket link up above, you can see a pretty good shot of the front door. If I remember correctly, it is from 3/4" teak marine plywood, with all square cut edges, corners slightly eased. That is something you might want to have Nautical Lumber make for you, since sourcing that kind of plywood could be difficult. The front compartment doors in the 19 Outrage were made from the same stock.
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 02/17/11 - 4:41 PM
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Thanks Finnegan. Probably an issue here with my BS satellite connection. Photo 7 in your link is the back end of a Merc 150 and I can't get past pic #8. I think there is a video in there and those will never show here.
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| modenacart |
Posted on 02/19/11 - 5:20 PM
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Finnegan wrote:
Owning Whalers with both style consoles, I can confirm what Joe has said. The "winged" console that you have is a different size and different construction than the lovered door assembly, which began in 1978. A louvered door to fit that opening would have to be custom made, or a different size opening would have to be cut into the console.
You can see the earlier "winged" console style door here:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v42...0006-1.jpg
Finnegan, what type of edge did you put on your gauge and throttle panels?
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
--Benjamin Franklin |
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 02/20/11 - 12:24 AM
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The panels are 3/8" solid teak, with a 3/16" to 1/4" 45 degree champhered edge. The engine control panel was needed because the boat was originally twin engine rigged, so this coveres the larger hole in the actual console face.
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 02/20/11 - 6:35 AM
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I was finally able to navigate through your photos Finnegan. Apparently there is a video in there that I cannot load but by skipping past it I did get to see the still photos.
Your boat is simply gorgeous! I can certainly see a reason to varnish with all the wood your boat has. Our Montauks only have the wood on the consoles and the RPS seat back unless the fishing platform is on the boat. I have 5 coats of teak oil and it is beginning to look pretty good but still drinking it up. The lower door should be a simple build for me from your pictures. I don't have the teak veneered plywood but I do have teak and a planer.
Super nice job on your console face and it is exactly like mine. I'm still trying to figure out if I want to mimic what you did with small rectangles of wood or if I will completely cover the slanted face between the wings with 3/8 inch teak. I do have a solid piece large enough to do it. Yours does look very nice and as close to original as can be. Opinions on covering the entire slant are welcome as I am not yet to this point and trying to decide which way to go. I also have a bunch of drilled holes in my console from where antenna wires went through on each side for both VHF and CB radios and the antennas where mounted on the gunwales. Lots of holes to patch and clean up before any wood goes back on.
My console also has a plastic insert or separator that makes the side door into a box inside and I am not sure if I will use it or not.
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| modenacart |
Posted on 02/20/11 - 7:30 AM
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I have a 1/2 inch board that I am going to use under the helm and throttle and I think I will use 3/8 for the control panels. I thought about using a 3/8 round on all of them. Does this make sense?
I just oiled the pieces I have with Wastco teak oil and it came out pretty dark. The drip piece came out almost a black color? I guess it comes out dark if it is old?
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
--Benjamin Franklin |
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 02/20/11 - 7:55 AM
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My console had nothing under the helm and control. Just 2 rectangular 1/4 inch panels for the gauges and switches. The bezel for the new helm is not as wide as the old one so I have to do something there. My new throttle is the same so it will drop right in.
Just my thought here but if you don't have a need for the thicker wood to cover a big hole or ad extra support then I would keep them all the same thickness. Keep in mind how much room you have behind the dash when everything is installed so you don't build the helm out too far and the cable becomes and issue.
I think you are a bit further along than I am and I'm sure I will run in to lots of challenges as the weather breaks. 70 MPH gusts here yesterday and no electric from 10 AM until 2 AM this morning and 12 degrees with steady high winds still. My favorite time here in the NY mountains.
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 02/20/11 - 12:44 PM
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Gam - Your console does not look too badly butchered by the previous owner. I would try to keep it as original and clean as possible, filling in holes as needed and polishing up the gelcoat. I have seen several applications where large sheets of wood have been put over console tops and front surfaces, but I don't like the look.
I have found the consoles, once taken out of the boat and stripped like you have done, are fairly easy to bring back.
On plywood backed areas, I have found it easy to glue back in plugs which will fill the wood, then fill the glass portion, both sides, with polyester resin like Evercoat #27, then gelcoat over on the top surface. On one job, I even was able to fill in a 4-1/2" diameter hole on the thin console top from a recessed compass poorly placed, and not on wheel centerline. I have an adjustable hole cutter which is great for cutting a round plywood plug to fill in round holes. Top over with #27 and gelcoat and you'll never see it if color match is good. Gelcoat color MUST be custom matched, using a tinting kit. Start with Desert Tan and tint from there.
On thin areas of the console with no wood backing, glue on a scrap of teak or marine plywood as a backer plate, fill glass thickness with #27 and gelcoat again.
To gloss up console, wet sand #1000, #1500, #2000, then use 3M Imperial Compound and Finishing material (wool buffer pad), followed by 3M Finesse-it II, and Kit Scratch-out as a final glaze. Result will be factory new gloss, or even better.
Thank you for your compliment on the 19 Outrage. Except for the control pad, the console is all original. Whaler originally furnished a fuel gauge between the instrument panels, with on-off switch, so I put a gauge series clock in the hole instead. The console in the boat is also raised 6" on teak blocking I designed and built. The wheel and engine control on the original design is too low for my 6-2 height. The raised console is a GREAT detail, completely changing the feel of the boat. I would consider doing it.
A friend has taken my suggestion for his 1986 Montauk, raising it 4", and it is fabulous. RPS is also raised 6" on his Montauk. He used my riser designs.
My console also had that strange interior partitioning. I removed it. I also re-wired, using a Blue Seas 6 gang fuse block for power distribution, mounted to the lower port side of the console, easily accessible from the front door.
Your original steering is heavy duty "Big T", with components still avaiable from Teleflex. I would stay with it, which will save console filling work. Looks like you need a new oval bezel, either black or chromed. A new quick connect cable can be fitted, which is what I did.
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 02/20/11 - 2:05 PM
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Thanks Finn. I am kind of getting partial to the way yours looks and as it came from the factory. I can slice up that large piece of 3/8 teak and make a bunch of panels just the way they came and have some left over.
I already bought the new steering head and cable but I think it is a Safe T or Quick T style and has a round bezel instead of oval. My old helm is shot and very pitted. The new one does appear to be not quite as heavy duty.
Great info on the hole filling process. I will have about 4 3/4" or 1 inch holes where the ends of Antenna connectors where drilled to go through. Just a bunch of screw holes after that. I already raised my CC and the RPS up about 2 inches in height. I could go higher I suppose. I am doing what some consider sacrilege and I fastened a 2 inch thick by 6 inch wide plate of solid Teak where the CC fastens to the floor to support the T top I will be installing. I will re use the tapered teak runners the CC was on which is also still solid and in great shape. Just my attempt at beefing up and spreading out the load the T top frame will ad.
I'm sure to have plenty of questions as the weather breaks and I get moving. I do wish I could re gel coat the entire hull in and out but I just don't have the facilities and am not getting any younger. I hope she ends up looking OK in her faded glory but more important is getting her water ready so I can catch a few fish and waste some time in retirement.
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| modenacart |
Posted on 02/20/11 - 7:15 PM
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Gel coat is the materiel you have to work with in hell, which you have to sand out orange peel without polishing through and everything is corners. You can have a perfectly flat surface and the gelcoat still won't lay flat after you spray it.
I would never regel a boat again, it is just not worth the effort.
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
--Benjamin Franklin |
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| modenacart |
Posted on 02/25/11 - 1:34 PM
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Fennagen, Gary,
What hardware was used to mount the doors. I just sanded and oiled my old ones. They don't look great, but will work for now.
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
--Benjamin Franklin |
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 02/25/11 - 2:07 PM
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modenacart wrote:
Fennagen, Gary,
What hardware was used to mount the doors. I just sanded and oiled my old ones. They don't look great, but will work for now.
Perko Bronze, Hinge is #951-1 or possibly 7, Hasp is # 998. These are for the side door only and I suspect the same for the main door that I don't have.
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 02/26/11 - 9:00 AM
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I need to know the width of the trim boards around the lower console door, the parts that get attached to the console. They appear to be about 1.5 inches but I can't be sure.
My rough opening is 10.5" H X 24 3/8".
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