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Idle/ Lagging issue
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| Turpin |
Posted on 08/12/09 - 6:55 PM
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Houston I have a problem!!!!
Since first day of my season this year my motor (1982 Evinrude 35hp) has had troubles with idling. After the motor finally warms up it performs a little better but not by much.
I installed new plugs, they had a marginal effect but eventually the problem got much worse as it would not take any throttle until well after the painful process of warm up.
I gutted the carb, cleaned and installed a new kit in carb. The motor will idle much better but I'm still having the issue of longer than usual warm up before motor will take any throttle.
While running WOT, motor runs smooth and fast. If you back the throttle down to about half, you can fill it lagging and surging but never stalling.
Plugs appear fairly normal/clean, this about the 8th tank of fuel (I clean the tank sometime after 4th fill up). All fuel lines (motor and tank) were replaced last year. My only other thought was a fuel pump which I dismantle yesterday and all appeared fine but I guess it is another option other than possible electrical.
Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.
1963 13' Sport 50hp Evinrude
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 08/13/09 - 12:01 AM
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How about a quick peek at the thermostat as a cold running engine could cause similar issues?
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| Turpin |
Posted on 08/13/09 - 1:06 PM
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A thermostat definitly won't hurt. I took mine out in three pieces, I assume it is of the 82' vintage. Well a new one will be installed this evening and hopefully my Fuel pump repair kit will be in next week.
1963 13' Sport 50hp Evinrude
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| MW |
Posted on 08/13/09 - 1:13 PM
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It'll run without a stat, it run's better w/ one as the engine will reach operating temp..
Matt |
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| Turpin |
Posted on 08/13/09 - 7:16 PM
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Yea I figured from previous post that it wouldn't be that big of a deal as long as it was stuck open (which mine was). It was refreshing to see that there wasn't any large deposits in that area as this motor ran for about seven months continous at the beach several years ago and I wasn't real sure how often it got flushed while on loan.
At least with my current problem of not idling until it is warmed up, it won't such the large pain of getting it warmed up.
By the way, I've only changed Thrmostats in a varity of car makes. I'll have to say that it could have been done a better way than having 12-15 bolts holding the cover to hidden thermostat.
Edited by Turpin on 08/13/09 - 7:20 PM
1963 13' Sport 50hp Evinrude
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| MW |
Posted on 08/14/09 - 12:07 AM
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I know that the newer model Evinrude engines have the "Automotive" type of change out for the stat's now, of course this does not help you but, I think it's worth putting the new stat in your engine, I know what you mean about the "Access" problem, been there.
Matt |
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| Turpin |
Posted on 08/24/09 - 7:10 AM
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Well for now I changed the thermostat, rebuilt carb and fuel pump. The engine runs much better MW and Derwd24 I believe that you may have had a point as the engine was not running well when cold and the other problems compounded the issue. I still have a re-occurring miss in the idling and I next plain to pull the fly wheel to see if anything may need replacing under there.
Last year after breaking the engine out of 7 year outdoors storage, found the motor wiring harness all but completely decayed and methodically rewired it so I’m wondering if anything under the fly wheel may have rotted as well.
1963 13' Sport 50hp Evinrude
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| Turpin |
Posted on 08/25/09 - 7:11 PM
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Well I'm not sure what I expected to find under the fly wheel other than the stator but everything appears free of corrosion.
Does anyone have any suggestions on other areas to test/check as to what maybe causing the motor to miss while idling?
The miss is not terrible but just doesn't go away even after motor reaches operating temperature.
Edited by Turpin on 08/25/09 - 7:11 PM
1963 13' Sport 50hp Evinrude
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| todd12 |
Posted on 08/25/09 - 7:31 PM
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Turpin,
I think you have resolved your problem. I have had 2 johnson 25hp engines around that year, one was a 1981 model and the other a 1984. Both of those engines should be very similar to the 35hp. I distinctly remember them both idling very ruff . I remember the 1981 model never having a good idle at all. Both motors spit and sputtered at idle. You maybe trying to fix something that is inherent to that engine. Maybe someone else with that vintage Johnson/Evinrude will chime in.
Todd
Edited by todd12 on 08/25/09 - 7:39 PM
Todd |
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| Turpin |
Posted on 08/25/09 - 8:45 PM
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I agree that it never idled extremely smooth but it was idling smoother last year and didn't have the dead miss. It idles a lot better than some of the same vintage I've seen, it's just the dead miss that has me wondering. It's hard to explain and more of an observational situation. I shouldn't complain too much due what I found with the wiring harness last year when I lifted the motor cover after 6-7 years of storage.
1963 13' Sport 50hp Evinrude
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| tkhvdh |
Posted on 08/26/09 - 10:57 AM
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Hey it's amazing these motors can sit that long and you can still get them to fire up.
I noticed you changed out the wire harness so I take it the plug wires are in good shape?
TURPIN, I have to agee with TODD, these are two cycle engines and they will run a little rough, the nature of the beast I guess.
If you want a smooth engine buy a Cadillac, but remember they are NOT a Whaler and will sink.
Good luck and let us know.
Edited by tkhvdh on 08/26/09 - 11:07 AM |
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 08/26/09 - 11:06 AM
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Also, don't know if you cleaned up any of the ground connections when you did the electrical. One loose or slightly corroded ground can cause similar problems, especially the coil grounds, but they're all worth a quick cleaning and tightening. You could also try running the motor at night in the dark to see if there's any high voltage leaks too...
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| MW |
Posted on 08/26/09 - 2:36 PM
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I noticed that most 2 strokes do not like to idle in neutral, they run smooth for a few seconds then give a slight kick almost like a miss, this seem's to be normal, and will dissappear when the motor is put under a "load" (in gear). How does your engine perform when you drop her in gear, does the "Miss" go away ?
Matt |
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| Tig |
Posted on 08/26/09 - 7:52 PM
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My old 33 hp eviinude had that idle kick. I adjusted the low speed jet this spring to richen it up a bit and it smoothed right out to a purrrr. So off I went on opening day of walleye season and trolled around the bay. I shut the engine off to drift a bit and it would not start again. Luckily I drifted home where I cleaned the plugs and leaned it out again. If you don't troll with your motor, idling a bit rich is probably no big deal.
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| Mr T |
Posted on 08/26/09 - 8:41 PM
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I know you said you pulled the stator, just wondering what the wires themselves looked like. It’s pretty common to have the insulation dry and and crack after years., and you will have issues from that point on.
I had similar issues with my old 78 35 hp Johson, turns out the stator wires were leaking from cracked wires. No chance to repair them, the cracks were easy to get to, but the wires inside were corroded all the to the windings. She ran even like that but very rough. Swapped out the stator, and she purred like a kitten again.
Something to check,
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| Eri |
Posted on 08/27/09 - 6:04 AM
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Its calle the SHAKES. All those engines did that at idle.
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| Turpin |
Posted on 08/28/09 - 5:01 AM
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I ran the engine yesterday, it's was still fairly rough at low speed rpm's while pulling away from the ramp. Again I understand that rough idle is the nature of the beast; it's more than rough idle it's a dead miss that randomly occurs and will stall the motor which I did not have before.
I did have a look at the stator wires and they look to be old but not cracked, I thought about making a small cut have a look at the strands but was concerned that might cause a problem what are your thoughts?
I called myself checking the grounds but that is certainly a good thought that I have overlooked. I'll have another look at the grounds.
The only other thing I could think of was the plug wires as they are the originals. Can they be made or do you have to buy OEM? I notice on the Evinrude Parts schematic the plug wires are list as disassembled pieces, I'm sure they can be ordered assembled but I wondered about replacing the wire and reusing the connectors, are your thoughts? I'm not a cheap @$$ it's just that I'm handy and had that thought.
Thanks for everybody's input.
Edited by Turpin on 08/28/09 - 5:02 AM
1963 13' Sport 50hp Evinrude
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| Eri |
Posted on 08/28/09 - 6:27 AM
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Two other things to look at are compression and maybe the Reeds. I have seen reed valves go bad and cause an issue. When you did over the card did you set the float level? Did you check the float closely for cracks. Maybe an intake gasket leak or a vacuum line? You can check the plug wire at their connections for being burnt of corroded. Sometime you have to remove the boot to look at where the connector and wire come together. Just some thoughts.
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 08/28/09 - 8:00 AM
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To do a quick check of the reeds, you can hold a white business card in front of each carb opening with the engine running, and if there's excess spatter on the card, there may be a bad reed. A very little bit is normal.
Eri has good points about the carb rebuild. I'd also add the float needles, sometines the rubber points get worn and let too much gas in the float bowl which can cause an issue.
And finally, running the engine in the dark will show you if the plug wires are leaking as you'll see blue light at the leak. You can also check the wires with an ohm meter to see if the resistance is out of spec.
Stick with it, you'll get to the source of the miss sooner or later!
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| Turpin |
Posted on 08/28/09 - 8:11 AM
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For the carb rebuild, I installed a new float and gaskets. I set the float level per a video I had seen which coincided with the level of the float I had replaced.
I've heard of reeds but have never really been sure of there purpose or location.
I'll check the compression and plug wires.
I love projects, I'm a rather grumpy man when I don't have one.
Thanks
1963 13' Sport 50hp Evinrude
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