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1977 21 Outrage Banana Hull
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| CaptTrojan |
Posted on 03/02/18 - 3:30 PM
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I am running a 2004 Mercury 25" Saltwater series 200hp on this boat no jackplate, she is propped with a merc vengeance 21p 3 blade SS prop. She turns 6000 rpms at WOT with 43mph , I am thinking of going to a Mirage Plus 21p to get some more stern lift and low end plaining anyone have simular set up i know i am way under propped with the numbers. thanks
thanks CT.
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| sraab928 |
Posted on 03/02/18 - 5:18 PM
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You should be running a 20” shaft motor on that hull. Not 25. Your going to need a jackplate to raise the motor.
Scott
1974 21' Revenge w Mercury 200 ProXS V8 |
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| CaptTrojan |
Posted on 03/02/18 - 6:07 PM
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I just realized I did a typo , I do have a 20", confirmed
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 03/02/18 - 6:12 PM
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And what does the manual say the WOT RPM's should be?
If it is 6,000, then your prop is just right
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| CaptTrojan |
Posted on 03/02/18 - 6:33 PM
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5400-5600rpm is manual, also my stern rides real low and have to run trimmed all the way down , top end is 43mph.
I was thinking of switching to Mirage plus prop to get some stern lift and better handling at lower speeds.
Capt. Trojan
1977 Outrage 21 |
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| CaptTrojan |
Posted on 03/02/18 - 6:36 PM
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pic
CaptTrojan attached the following image:
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Capt. Trojan
1977 Outrage 21 |
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| sraab928 |
Posted on 03/03/18 - 5:40 AM
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She floats great. That motor should be good for 50mph on that hull. Tom Clark is the man when it comes to dialing these in.
Scott
1974 21' Revenge w Mercury 200 ProXS V8 |
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 03/03/18 - 11:07 AM
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It sounds like you have an engine problem, or you may have a prop hub slippage problem. Check your prop first for a "spun hub" as they call it. That boat should run 46 MPH with a 2.0 Liter Mercury 150 (as mine did), and you have a 2.5 liter 200, a LOT more power.
Max RPM is 5600 as noted, and the engine should be mounted in the middle (3rd) set of holes. You should be able to get 54 MPH out of that rig running 21" pitch. I have been in a 21 Outrage with a Merc 175 EFI and it indeed did run 54, using a 21" pitch Laser II prop. i agree that a 21" Enertia would be the prop of choice for your rig, but I would get engine running properly first before spending the $500.
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| CaptTrojan |
Posted on 03/03/18 - 11:17 AM
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Yes you are right there is a few others with the 175hp's getting 45-50mph I am right at 44mph but im spinning 6000-6100 rpms with a 21p vengeance. The motor has been checked and carbs cleaned by a real good mercury guy here in houston, its tip top. I need to get propped better, I ll check the mounting as well.
Capt. Trojan
1977 Outrage 21 |
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 03/04/18 - 8:11 AM
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Your engine has has a 1.87 gear ratio, and with that and a 21" prop, at 6000 RPM you should be running at least 57 MPH. So you are getting major slippage at the propeller. Using the RPM you are showing, your boat is running like it has a 16" pitch prop.
I have a pair of Mercury 200's on my Outrage 25, and several years ago, at a Whaler event, a Mercury factory racing rep set my boat up with a pair of 19" Revolution 4 props, and managed to get it up to 6300 RPM and 62 MPH. I only mention this to show that your rig, at 6100 RPM and 21" pitch, should easily be going 57 mph
Prop hub slippage is definitely your problem, unless splines on your driveshaft are stripped at the crankshaft, something you don't even want to think about!
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| CaptTrojan |
Posted on 03/04/18 - 11:40 AM
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When I first got the boat it came with a Trophy plus 21p, I took it for a spin but noticed when I gave gas the engine wanted to lag behind and then after slowly increasing the throttle she would come up this would be perfect for the slippage theory right ? When I switched to the Mercury Vengeance 21p prop with a flo torque II hub kit I noticed the engine didn't do that, when you gave RPM's she climbed right up as supposed to but still 6000 rpms, now given that the hub kit is old and has noticeable wear on the edges I will just order a brand new one and see if that helps maybe I still am getting some slippage at higher RPM's. I do agree with you guys the HUB seems to be an issue, thanks for all the help, Ill post updates as i get them.
Capt. Trojan
1977 Outrage 21 |
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 03/04/18 - 3:02 PM
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You would not need a new hub kit - just the replaceable black drive sleeve. Once you have the prop off, a deep socket that fits the prop nut is perfect for driving the old sleeve out of the prop. Hopefully you will find a deformed drive sleeve.
If this does not solve your problem, drive shaft splines could be the problem. Several years ago I had the same problem you have described, and the splines in the bottom of the crankshaft (where the drive shaft fits in) were badly worn, causing the slippage at higher RPM. The fix is an engine rebuild and new crankshaft!
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| MG56 |
Posted on 03/05/18 - 6:32 AM
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Capt, you didn't mention how you are measuring speed and RPMs. Accurate?
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| wading mark |
Posted on 03/05/18 - 6:14 PM
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You should have no issue running 50 mph with that engine. I'm running 50 with a 175 Suzuki with a 3x16x20 prop.
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| CaptTrojan |
Posted on 03/06/18 - 3:07 PM
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measuring speed by my plotter and cell phone both are accurate and rpm gauge is brand new and accurate. I will install new hub and run it next week and follow up with y'all.
Capt. Trojan
1977 Outrage 21 |
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| CaptTrojan |
Posted on 03/16/18 - 1:12 PM
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installed new hub and same story no change, I will play with props and see what I can acheive 44mph 6000 rpms today, 21p trophy plus.
Capt. Trojan
1977 Outrage 21 |
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 03/16/18 - 2:37 PM
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Since you have now eliminated prop hub slippage, the slippage is coming from somewhere else, and there are not many places left!. As I said in my March 3 post, I would again guess that you have a crankshaft/drive shaft spline problem. If you do, eventually it will let go completely. You may be looking at a new crankshaft as a fix. When a failure happens where the drive shaft enters the crank, the worn splines in the crank are usually the problem. There are two ways that this joint fails. One is jamming the gears from forward into reverse at higher than normal RPM (idle set too high), the other is "wave jumping", where the prop spins loose coming over a wave, then bites hard on re-entry. This will do it quickly.
If it's not that, I am stumped completely.
Your numbers indicate you should actually be running a 23" prop, to keep the RPM's down to 5600. At 5600 RPM, running your 1.87 gear ratio in the lower unit, and a 23" prop, you should be getting close to 58 MPH. So, major slippage is occurring somewhere.
Run the engine up through the rpms, and see where the slippage starts to happen. With your setup RPM's should match speed closely. That is, 3000 RPM should be close to 30 MPH, 4000 RPM should be 40 MPH, etc.
Also, do you know the history of the engine? If you bought it new, and know how you handled it over it's life, that could invalidate my theory. But if used, and history is unknown, that would add credibility to my guess.
Edited by Finnegan on 03/16/18 - 3:58 PM |
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| CaptTrojan |
Posted on 03/19/18 - 4:19 PM
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Yes i know the orignal owner he bought engine new in 2004 he said it had less than 100 hrs when we pulled out of storage last yr. i even ran a power tech 4 blade ofs 17p and same thing 44 mph 6000rpms. So something is wrong im not sure if i have a water logged hull ? Or like u said slipage issue with shaft. The bow rides high i have to keep trim down even put a hydrafoil on drilless to see if helps but same just a little better hole shot still same numbers. Lol
Edited by Joe Kriz on 03/19/18 - 4:44 PM
Capt. Trojan
1977 Outrage 21 |
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| sraab928 |
Posted on 03/20/18 - 3:59 AM
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Based on your one pic above she floats great. Do you have any photos of her out of the water showing the motor mounted?
Scott
1974 21' Revenge w Mercury 200 ProXS V8 |
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| CaptTrojan |
Posted on 03/25/18 - 11:18 AM
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This has got to be the worst picture upload forum in history can t seem to get a low quality image to load idk why i give up, okay so basically there is 4 holes vertically I have a bolt threw the top hole.
Edited by CaptTrojan on 03/25/18 - 11:28 AM
Capt. Trojan
1977 Outrage 21 |
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