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Pulling the Plug on Outrage 18'
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| stingraze |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 6:06 AM
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Hello Everyone. This is a basic concern that I should not have to seek advice on, but I would like to receive some feedback for peice of mind. I have a 1983 Outrage that I leave in the water for periods of time no longer than 4 days. I had a Mako that sank a few years back during a heavy rainstorm when the pump failed to keep up with the water. That very reason is why I own a whaler today, but I want to know what I am supposed to do when leaving it in. Apparently, this model is not a self bailing boat, as the rain water drains into the hull. I put a bildge pump in there to remove the water, but a friend with an Outrage told me to remove the pump and simply pull the plug when it is at the dock. I have owned (and still do) several whalers, but something isn't natural to me about pulling the plug on a boat. Yes, I understand "The Unsinkable Legend", but how much water can it handle? Thanks
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| jlh49 |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 6:32 AM
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Stingraze,
I keep all drain plugs in during use of my 22' Outrage, but always remove the two drain sump plugs at the stern when mooring overnight. I have Rule 1100 GPH pumps to handle excess water during use. With the boat at the dock, there is not much chance for water to build up in the drain sumps because of the boats ability to "float up." While offshore, I occasionally take a wave over the transom that puts a lot water into the sumps at one time. That's the reason for my pumps. Excess water in your sumps and rigging tunnels are not good for cables, wires and hoses.
Jack Harley
1989 Outrage 22' 2005 Yamaha F150 |
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| danedg |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 10:16 AM
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"Pulling the plug"...refers to an action performed while a Whaler is at some speed....the convective forces will draw any water from the boat.
In the old days, before automatic pumps, that was one of my tasks as 4th child, if we had left the boat in the water overnight etc.,rain events, taking it over the bow...but we did that infrequently as Dad almost ALWAYS trailered her.....
I don't....she's now in a slip for the Northeast season, subject to ALL precip....thank God for that Rule 500 Fully Automatic pump...
I "pulled the plug" the other day, when I had an experienced friend at the helm...it brought back old memories, and drained the boat nicely! That night it rained like the bejeebers...and the next morning it had a little water in the bilge well...
I cannot imagine that your "friend", would recommend pulling the plug while at rest for any reason! That really is the silliest thing I've heard in a long time....you can't sink a Whaler...why keep trying?
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 11:15 AM
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stingraze,
The Outrage 18 are Self Baling.............
It depends on the way the Outrage 18' is configured. What engine, how many batteries, etc.... on how much water will come in the starboard sump area.
I have an automatic Rule-Mate bilge pump in the sump area of my 1985 Outrage 18... It works just fine for me for the light rains that I have encountered.
You can however remove the sump plug and leave it this way as long as leaves or debri don't block the drain tube. Very little water will come into the sump area and will NOT rise above the floor level. This means the floor will always be water free.
Pull the plug at the dock and give it a try. Of course, after pulling the plug, get out of the boat and stand on the dock and see if any water is coming above the floor level.... It shouldn't...
Again, all boats and models are slightly different.
On my 1989 Outrage 22' Cuddy, there were 2 sumps with drains. One port and one starboard.
I never had any plugs in either of these two sump drains.... No water ever came in the sump area hardly at all. You could see the water at the top of the drain tube but not high enough to even enter the sump area unless I stood in the corner of the boat. Therefore, I never needed plugs in the stern area of the boat. The only plug I keep in was the one in the Cuddy area which of course, needed it....
Pull your drain plug at the dock and give it a try. You should not see any water coming in above the floor level.....
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| Doug V |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 3:26 PM
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I have neve installed plugs in the aft sump drains of my Outrage 22.
With 3 of us dealing with landing a fish and getting the lines back in the water, all three us are aft of the leaning post. Escially if the conditions are sloppy, water will enter the main well directly in front of the splash well, but the automatic pump switch turns the pump on, whick quickly evacuates the accumulated water.
I never see water above the deck level.
Doug
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| stingraze |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 6:23 PM
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[quote]Joe Kriz wrote:
stingraze,
The Outrage 18 are Self Baling.............
I have an automatic Rule-Mate bilge pump in the sump area of my 1985 Outrage 18... It works just fine for me for the light rains that I have encountered.
You can however remove the sump plug and leave it this way as long as leaves or debri don't block the drain tube. Very little water will come into the sump area and will NOT rise above the floor level. This means the floor will always be water free.
Thank you all for the responses!! Joe Kriz - If I remove the sump plug, I believe that my pump in its current position will kick on. I guess that I need to do as suggested and pull the plug at the dock and see what happens. This thread has made me realize that I put my pump too low, and possibly need to relocate once I see where the "rising water point" is when the plug is out. Thank you for the info.
**Just for clarification, with the plug out, the water should run out of the stern of the boat? I have 1 battery in the stern (plans to relocate under the console) and I have a 1999 150 mercury bluewater series. Thanks again for everyones help!!
Michael
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| kamie |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 6:29 PM
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stingraze,
At the dock pull the sump plug and the splashwell plugs and see what happens. As Joe said depending on the weight of your engine and batteries in the stern you may or may not get water up to the level of the deck. Before I added the bracket to my 1987 Outrage I would get minimal water in the sump and splashwell and I always left the boat with plugs out. The one time I forgot to pull the plugs the poor marina folk were beside themselves with worry and frantically looking for a pump to pump out the water, which was up close to the center console. I hopped in, pulled the plugs and waited until the majority of the water drained out so I could scrub the river scum off the deck. After adding the bracket the splashwell drains were below the waterline so I installed rule pumps which kept the water down.
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| stingraze |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 6:43 PM
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Thank you Kamie for the reply. What would happen if all of the plug were in and it filled with water as your post suggested? Simply a curiousity question, and one that I do not intend to experiment with, just wanting to understand the limits. If the plugs were out in the splashwell, but in the sump area, would h20 go over the splash "wall" and find its way out of the boat or would the boat become unstable? I know these are alot of "what if" scenarios, but after having a boat sink that I had alot of sweat equity and cash into, I just want to know. Thank you again.
**I planned to take pictures of my boat to post, but 2 screaming boys under the age of 4 without naps prevented the photo shoot. Maybe tomorrow? By the way, the name of my boat is Temper Tantrum!! Very evident today -
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 6:48 PM
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stingraze,
I would not raise your pump.... Just turn it OFF when you pull the plug....
Kamie and a few others with setback brackets are a little different than the rest of us as they put in plugs on the transom drains to keep the splashwell a little drier.
For the rest of us, there should be NO plugs in the transom drain holes. Some Outrage 18's had 2 drains and other Outrage 18's had 3 drains.... NO plugs unless you have a specific reason. If you don't know the reason, then there should be no plugs in the transom....
Water will NOT drain out of the sump area when the boat is not underway.... This is normal..
You will get a little water in the sump area with the plug out.. This is normal for an 18'....
The water may even fill the sump area with the plug out... This is normal....
The water should not come above the sump and over the floor however.... This is NOT normal...
Your bilge pump should have 3 positions...
OFF
Manual
Automatic
When you leave the boat without the plug in, turn the bilge pump to OFF...... You don't need it.
Water will stay below the floor level unless the sump drain gets clogged for whatever reason.
Make sure you don't dock under a tree.....
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| stingraze |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 7:00 PM
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Joe Kriz - This is definately a learning experience for me; one that is becoming clearer with everyone's patience and knowledge. My bilge pump is operated by an automatic float switch or either by a manual switch on my console. Other than diconnecting from the battery, I do not have an off switch. I will need to revisit my wiring configuration. All of this info has been VERY helpful in my understanding of what I have. Thanks again, and hang tight, as I will have more ??'s I am sure!!
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 7:42 PM
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That's what we're here for.... Everyone helping each other....
There is a photo of a genuine Boston Whaler Bilge Pump switch in the OEM Parts Photo section.
Here is just one photo of a dual switch. Click on the photo for a larger view and you will see:
MAN, OFF, AUTO
http://www.whalercentral.com/photogal...hoto_id=13
Rule also makes similar switches:
http://www.rule-industries.com/produc.../index.htm
If your switch does not have an OFF position, then I would consider changing the switch.
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 8:45 PM
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Very interesting post, good info. I'm wondering if pulling the rear plug and checking the water level would also be a test as to whether there is water in the hull or not? (I always kept all my plugs in and bilge to Auto for this reason)
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 9:05 PM
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Derwd24,
There should be only 2 drain plugs in an Outrage 18'.....
One in the bow locker and one in the sump area.....
I always leave my 2 drain plugs in and leave my bilge pump in the sump area on AUTO......
You should never plug up any of the drain holes in the transom unless you have a specific reason as mentioned above. These transom drains allow water to get out of the boat quickly should you happen to take on a wave.... If you have plugs in the transom, then your boat will remain FULL of water..... NOT Good.....
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 11:27 PM
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Thanks Joe, Should have said my boat is an Outrage 22, not sure if the same rules hold for that. I keep the inside splash well plug out, if I take a wave, it drains into the rear center well and gets pumped by the bilge. The other wells I drain when underway as needed. After reading the above, was wondering if I can gauge the amount of water in the hull by what level the water seeks when sitting?
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/03/07 - 11:59 PM
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Hard for me to remember what boat everyone has...
Of course, you have an Outrage 22'...
NO.... You can't really go by how level the boat sits or doesn't sit... They are all slightly different due to engine weight, battery placement, etc...
I can tell you if the boat is almost submerged in the stern and the motor is small and not on a set-back bracket, then there is probably a problem.
Your 1983 is a little different that my prior 1989 model.
You have 3 thru hull drains I believe. (unless you have more than one up front)
One in the sump, one in the front bow locker area, and one in the rear fish locker.
The 1989 did not have one in the rear fish locker. It had to have a pump in there.
You should also be able to leave out the sump plug. The 1989 had two sumps, one port and one starboard. I left both of these plugs out as no water came in to speak of....
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 12:16 AM
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Sorry Joe, I've got to stick that tag at the bottom of my posts with the boat info! It has 6 thru hulls, 4 up front and two in the back. There's no port sump in the 83 but the rear fish locker does have a drain (and a pump) as well as a tube to the splash well. Was just thinking if I pulled the starboard sump plug and it filled above floor level, maybe that would be an indicator... Or more happily, if I pulled it and it didn't, I could be more assured of less water in the hull.
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 12:20 AM
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I couldn't remember if some of the older models had more plugs up front. I think they got carried away with the drill... One if the very front? One in the large front locker, and one each in the side lockers.... What where they thinking?
Later on they changed and had the very front locker and the two side lockers drain into the large front locker. This way they only needed one thru hull.... Much better.....
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| jlh49 |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 6:38 AM
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The changes in the forward locker drain configuration described by Joe are one of several improvements made between my 1979 22' Outrage model and 1989 22' Outrage model I have now. Putting hinges on the forward locker cover, and making the bow rail a one piece welded unit were big, but from my perspective, the redesign of the splash well by making it shallower, and the full width of the transom was the best change. Adding a second drain sump on the aft port side was also beneficial. I had too many occasions offshore when at idle catching schoolie dolphin, I would take a wave over the transom. The water would fill the deep splashwell, overflow into the rear fish/baitwell and fill it. Another wave would come in and I would have 3 or 4 inches of water on the deck. The fish/baitwell cover floated out of the boat on a couple of occasions, and had to be retrieved. I would then have to pick up and run to drain all the water. Never had these problems with the 1989 model.
Derwd,
Is there a reason you think you might have water in your hull? I know you are trying to make a decision about a repower. When you remove the old motor, go to a truck weight station on one of the interstates, and weigh your total rig. There is no fee for this service in Florida. Then subtract the weight of your trailer and other non-boat items. Factor in the weight of the intangibles like fuel, and etc. I think your Whaler should weigh about 2000/2050 lbs. This might give you some indication of extra weight due to water in the hull.
Jack Harley
1989 Outrage 22' 2005 Yamaha F150 |
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 11:09 AM
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Had I known Joe, I would have filled the other 3 thru hulls and had them drain into the main well as you say when I replaced all 8 tubes this summer. Makes much more sense with less chance of water entering. Next time for sure! The two front side locker angles on the outside hull were pretty steep, have no idea how Whaler did those tubes with a standard flanger? Tom's air tool with the ground die helped immensely on those...
I've had the same thing happen on my rear splashwell Jack, but the Rule pump in the baitwell always handled the overflow very well. If I pull the deck this winter, I'm going to put one in the large front locker as getting to that plug way down in there requires me to lay down and slide in.
The boat had a number of holes in the bottom, was moored, and the bottom of the engine bracket on the transom is all but decayed away from corrosion, which makes me think it was sitting pretty low. Also, the boat seemed sluggish until I dropped the pitch to 15, but that could have been the engine. I did weigh it when I first got it, but am not sure how much fuel is in the main tank (previous owner never used it and the gauge doesn't work) and not sure how much the T-top weighs. But by my numbers, subtracting for the engine, trailer, and other gear on board, I get a little over 3050 lbs.
A one piece welded bow rail, wish they'd thought of that sooner!
Edited by Derwd24 on 09/04/07 - 11:15 AM |
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| jlh49 |
Posted on 09/04/07 - 2:17 PM
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Derwd,
My fault, I could have answered my own question by remembering the photos on your personal page. If you are estimating the hull weighs about 3000 lbs, you probably have a lot of water in the hull. The first time I replaced drain tubes in the two aft sumps, I had some water in the foam in those areas. After removing the tubes, I plugged the holes from the topside, and used a wet/dry shop vac to suction the holes from the outside. It worked pretty good.
10-4 on the difficulty of using a flaring tool to install the tubes on angled surfaces. I did this before discovering the instructions displayed on this site! It was a job!
Jack Harley
1989 Outrage 22' 2005 Yamaha F150 |
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