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Differing opinions from techs.
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| Binkie |
Posted on 06/25/08 - 2:57 PM
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Just installed my new to me `99 Johnson 2 stroke single carb engine on my 13 footer. The harness has a ignition switch with push choke, that mounts in dash. When I bought the motor, the previous owner told me that sometimes the motor won`t shut down, and you only can stop it by putting palm of your hand over the venturi of the carb. Of course you have to remove the cowl to do this. He stated that maybe when he disconnected the switch from his boat he had to remove the wires from the switch. He made it sound like it didn`t have this problem when it was mounted on his boat. Well I checked the wiring as to the manual and it is correct. I am thinking the switch is bad. It is the original OMC switch with six terminals and the wires just push on for contact. they don`t screw on. Push key to choke. Should be a ten minute fix. I go to Johnson dealer #1, he agrees with me, said he`s seen many switches go bad like that over the years, but has none in stock. He says try dealer #2, a Yamaha dealer that also carries OMC parts. He has one in stock. He tell me if I`m lucky it is the switch, cost of switch $45. He says its probably the power pack or CD unit. Can`t return switch if its not the problem. Go back to dealer #1 and he orders the switch,(be in Friday), and says if it doesn`t solve the problem, he`ll refund the money for the switch, and then can diagnose the problem. I say fair enough. He says here`s pretty sure I have a bad switch, I agree with him, what do you all think? BTW the engine starts and runs perfect, on the hose, but I haven't water tested it yet.
rich
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| moose |
Posted on 06/25/08 - 4:02 PM
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Rich,
Inside that switch where all the contacts are you'll find springs, brass whodingies, and ball bearings. I wouldn't suggest trying to take it apart. If one of the parts has come loose or broken it could at times short out and keep the motor running. I would say that it would also act strangely at other times and do odd things. A loose wire at the starter that moves and contacts another wire can do the same thing causing a loop so the switch is bypassed. Just something to look for.
Mike
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| Binkie |
Posted on 06/25/08 - 4:30 PM
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Thanks Mike, I`ll check for loose wires tomorrow.
rich
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| CapnJs |
Posted on 06/25/08 - 5:30 PM
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Rich,
Any chance that the connections to the switch look like the one on my personal page? If so it is very likely a bad connection. My overboard kill switch didn't work and it had a wire connected to that switch. I rewired and put screws on all the terminal and everything works fine now. Mine is a Mercury but bad connections can cause all kinds of problems.
Jack
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 06/25/08 - 5:46 PM
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If you can't find a loose wire, then just replace the entire switch.
They aren't that much money and you can be assured of many years of not having to worry about such a small thing as a key switch assembly.
For wiring instructions, check out this article I wrote:
http://www.whalercentral.com/readarti...icle_id=72
See page 2 of the above link for the differences between the 1995 and older as compared to the 1996 and newer wiring harnesses and connections.
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| Binkie |
Posted on 06/28/08 - 9:32 AM
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Well, no loose wires found. Bought a new switch $45. dealer said I could return it if it didn`t solve the problem. Installed the new switch, same problem, motor won`t shut off. Well I was a bit frustrated, and I switched the two magneto wires. It is not really clear which one goes where, as there are two Ms on the switch, and the directions say one is "raised" but it`s not. Bear in mind that I did the same thing , switching the magneto wires on the old switch with no change. OK, so now I turn the key and nothing happened. I turned the key to on, and jumped the solenoid, and the motor starts, but still won`t stop. I seem to be going the wrong way here, any ideas?
rich
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 06/28/08 - 10:10 AM
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Rich,
Not sure about the specifics of your motor in terms of number of power packs, etc, but a good place to start is knowing that in order for the engine to turn off, there's a wire coming from the power pack(s) to a terminal on the ignition switch (black/yellow wire on my schematic). Now when you turn the engine off, this terminal is connected through the switch to a wire on another terminal that goes to ground (black wire on my schematic). The engine will not run when this wire is grounded. When the engine is running, this connection is open and the power pack lead isn't grounded.
A quick way to start would be to turn the new swtch off (wires disconnected) and check continuity between the terminals, and the two that show a connection in the off position are the two that should have the above wires connected to them. On the schematic I have for my V6, the ignition switch has 6 terminals, and and the ones with the letter M are the ones connected to the wires described above, and they are the only two terminals that have connection with the switch in the off position, and they don't appear to be used at all for any of the other 3 switch positions, start, on, and choke on. Hopefully yours is similar as they're both Johnson.
You may have a bad ground that's floating, or a bad (open) wire to the power pack(s). A quick continuity check will tell you if that's the case. This should give you a basic understanding of what's supposed to be happening. Take a look and let us know what you see. It's a pretty simple circuit, so we should be able to get it squared away.
Edited by Derwd24 on 06/28/08 - 10:35 AM
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| seahorse |
Posted on 06/28/08 - 10:59 AM
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From what you described and tried, your problem may be in the powerpack wiring connector, the boat or motor harness, or the pack itself.
You didn't provide the engine model so we have to talk in generalities until you do.
The black/yellow "kill wire" gets grounded to turn off the ignition system. If there is an open circuit anywhere in the system, the motor will not shut off. Check the wiring connections for bent or broken pins that are not making contact. Look closely at the black/yellow wire connector at the powerpack and at the boat to motor connection. You should also make sure that the black ground wire at the key switch is continuous all the way back to the engine block.
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| Binkie |
Posted on 06/28/08 - 1:17 PM
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Unfortinuatly the model number is missing on this motor. Its a `99 25hp EL
rich
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| Binkie |
Posted on 06/28/08 - 1:25 PM
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Seahorse,
You should also make sure that the black ground wire at the key switch is continuous all the way back to the engine block
All the wires from the switch were cut about 6 inches back from the switch, and then reconnected with connectors, by the previous owner. The color code was maintained. Could this be a problem? Don`t know why he didn`t just pull the wires off the terminals, Nothing appears to be loose.
rich
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| moose |
Posted on 06/28/08 - 2:39 PM
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Rich,
"Maxrules.com" has tons of info and wiring diagrams but I couldn't seem to find one for your type motor. I'm not the sharpest computer guy out here so maybe it's there and I just don't know how to get to it.
Mike
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 06/28/08 - 3:35 PM
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Do you have an ohm meter?
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| Binkie |
Posted on 06/28/08 - 3:50 PM
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Dave,
No, but I have a relative that has one and knows how to use it. I`m not very nowlegeable when it comes to electronic stuff like this.
rich
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 06/28/08 - 3:57 PM
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No worries Rich! Using the DVM is the easiest way to find the problem, and my guess is you guys will find it within the first few minutes... First thing I'd check is the ground wire, then the kill wire. If they've all been spliced as you say, it may not be a bad idea to check each one while you wiggle that splice just to be sure there's not other issues that could arise from the splices. Post up if you have any Q's or problems.
Edited by Derwd24 on 06/28/08 - 4:19 PM
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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