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recommended max hp for tiller outboard on 13'
gilly	#1  Posted on 04/03/06 - 12:02 PM
Member Posts: 2 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/23/06	I recently purchased a 1971 13'whaler currently powered by a mercury 15hp 4 stroke tiller motor. The bass club i fish with here in Oklahoma has a 15hp maximum and is geared toward small boats and small lakes. I really would like to purchase an additional bigger motor for family outings and bigger bodies of water. I need help with maximum hp recommendations regarding a tiller operated motor. Thanks in advance for your help, and i am new to the board. Gilly
Joe Kriz	#2  Posted on 04/03/06 - 12:20 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11434 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	gilly, You should have a Capacity Plate located somewhere on the inside of your Whaler. It should tell you what the max HP is for the tiller model and the steering wheel model. If you are missing this Capacity Plate, then here are the numbers. Tiller Model = 20 HP MAX Steering Wheel Model = 40 HP MAX
gilly	#3  Posted on 04/03/06 - 12:31 PM
Member Posts: 2 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/23/06	Thanks for the info. If anyone runs bigger than a 20 hp tiller on a 13' whaler, I would like to know how the boat handles and your opinions. Gilly
litespeed	#4  Posted on 04/03/06 - 5:16 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 67 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/26/05	Gilly, I run a 2 stroke Johnson 35 on mine. It is a tiller set up right now. I still have not decided if I should go with a side console or center console? It was origianlly a Sport but all the wood rotted out. I really like the tiller setup and the pull start on these engines. It is super light and keeps the rear of the boat from sitting too low in the water. The 35 runs it like a dream! And it really screams! I can run it all the way up to WOT with no problems. I plan on taking the GPS out with me tomorrow to test the speed. I'm sure it is in the mid 30's. You have to be careful on a hard launch from a stand still. The hole shot with throw you off the back of the boat if your not hanging on to something (hence the recommendation for a remote setup). A 2 stroke 25 HP would be enough as long as you dont take out more than a few people. If you plan on taking 3 or 4 people out...... I would recommend the 35 or maybe an older 40 (light weight). Not sure about the 4 strokers? I have no desire to own one. My current setup is the 35 HP tiller with a 10/13 prop. Good combination. Hope this helps. AJ litespeed attached the following image: [69.9Kb] Edited by litespeed on 04/03/06 - 6:32 PM
MW	#5  Posted on 04/03/06 - 7:42 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1827 Comments: 10 Joined: 01/08/06	Hi, I don't know about "Tillers" but, a friend of mine got his hands on one of the last of the 4 cylinder 40 H.P Mercs on his 13' w/ remote steering. This is one "HOT ROD" row boat ! MW
litespeed	#6  Posted on 04/04/06 - 3:03 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 67 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/26/05	Gilly, Here are some hard numbers for you on the 35HP 2 stroke. The numbers are about what I expected. I expected a higher cruise speed...... But the length of the hull just will not allow it. Unless you are in flat water. This is solo, with a 10/13 aluminum prop. "Sting Ray Junior" fin and tilt set at the 2nd hole from the top. Comfortable cruise is around 18 to 20 MPH according to the GPS. This is with a light chop. Water conditions were not ideal today. WOT was around 31 to 32 in these conditions. This is also around Sebastian Inlet (lots of current). I ran out in the ocean for about 30 minutes...... But it was just a little too rough to get an accurate reading (too much pounding). Keep in mind that I am sitting on an Igloo cooler. No real seat and nothing to hang on to (besides the tiller and the rub rail). Later in the day the wind kicked up and the chop went to about 1 foot (and a little over). On the verge of white capping. I put the tilt pin down to 3 holes from the top. I could still have the same comfortable cruise, but the speeds were 15 to 18 MPH. More comfortable around 16 MPH. At 18 MPH the coolers started hopping around. Just below that..... It was amazingly smooth!! Just putting the pin down one hole decreased my RPM's substansialy and the speed was just about the same. The boat also rode much flatter (forcing the V to split the waves better). The top end was gone though...... As I accelerated above 20 MPH the bow went down too hard and caused instability in the steering. WOT with the pin is this position was around 26 to 27 MPH (not comfortable). I honestly think the "Sting Ray Junior" fin is part of the reason for quick planing at low RPM's but a loss of top speed in all conditions. I plan to remove the fin here in a couple weeks and do a re-test. Still very good results!! I honestly think I could increase the pitch to 10/15. I'm going to buy another aluminum prop for a second test with and without the "fin". Then buy stainless via the results. I had no help in the prop pitch department here and on several other sites. It is almost as if no one has tried playing with it. Or the people who have, are not on these sites? So I am drawing my own conclusions. I will post them in a different thread here throughout the summer. It is alot of tiral and error...... Best regards, AJ
Tom W Clark	#7  Posted on 04/04/06 - 4:13 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	AJ, You can't really make any decisions about the propeller unless you have some engine speed data. Do you have a tachometer hooked up and if so what are the maximum RPMs you are seeing at WOT? I would expect that boat to do 35-36 MPH easily. If you are serious about getting more speed out of that thing, you should try a Stiletto Triad stainless steel prop. The one to try would be either the 10-1/8" x 14" Triad I or the 11-3/4" x 15" Triad II. We need to know how you represent propeller is performing in order to advise on which Stiletto would be better. Also, you will not be able to raise that motor any higher without a jack plate. The TH Marine Mini-Jacker is excellent for the 13 footers. http://www.thmarine.com/product.cfm?P...fm?PRID=23 Edited by Tom W Clark on 04/04/06 - 4:23 PM
litespeed	#8  Posted on 04/04/06 - 7:26 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 67 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/26/05	Tom, I realize that this is all useless without a tach..... Which is part of my problem as well as others here and elsewhere? I was on Continuous Wave last night for at least 45 minutes reading unanswered posts about what to do about this situation? Thread after thread about what to do about prop pitch..... Numerous posts with no answers? Same as mine here!! It has sat there for weeks with no reply? Someone must know, or no one really knows what this boat is capable of with the right prop and pitch? I find that hard to believe since this boat has been around since the 50's and 60's..... I'm sure it has had probably every engine on it (known to man) under the sun and under 60HP. There should be an obvious and easy answer for every engine in question. But, unfortuantely there is not (apparently). Or it is some "ancient chinese secret" (pardon the pun). So, here we are....... Again, here we are with the same question. Your answers sound correct? I'm not going to fork out $200.00+ in cash for a prop that is the wrong pitch. That is the reason for me going to these lengths to figure this out (with aluminum + or -200 RPM's whatever that may be?). I like the light weight of the OMC 25's and 35's, and Older Mariner and OMC 40's. The boat sits in the water like it is supposed to. But what is the pitch for these props? I really wish I had access to old BW literature. But, even they might have "under rated" it. My boat has A LOT LEFT all over the place. I'm sure I would see at least a 3 to 5 MPH gain across the board with a differnent prop. I have used the "mini jacker" on other boats with less than satifactory results. But those boats were flats boats. I dont like the idea of that ugly thing hanging off the back of my boat only to gain a few inches in shallow water capability. So, I guess the real question here is how to rig a tach to a standard engine? I have never done that...... Cant be too difficult? Any ideas? I just need help...... Maybe this should be posted in my prop pitch thread? Thanks in advance, AJ
Joe Kriz	#9  Posted on 04/04/06 - 8:28 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11434 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	AJ, Good points about the prop and no concrete answers. I think it is important to have a Tachometer to go by. The Max RPM's will not be known without a tach and that is what you need to really know so you don't overload or underload the engine. I had a tach on my 13' years ago but I also had the side console with electric start. At that time I never paid any attention to the details we all seem to be interested in now. Hopefully someone will know how to hook up a temporary tach just so you can test out the different props and reach Max RPM at Wide Open Throttle... After you find the correct prop, no real need for a tachometer after that with your setup in my opinion. Edited by Joe Kriz on 04/04/06 - 8:29 PM
Tom W Clark	#10  Posted on 04/05/06 - 12:40 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	AJ, Take it easy. You're not getting any feedback because nobody probably knows what the perfect propeller is for your boat. Like Joe, I too had a Sport 13 when I was younger. It was equipped with virtually an identical Johnson 35 as yours. It ran fine but I have no idea what propeller was on it. Back then there were just the OMC aluminum props for it so it was either A, B or C pitch. Today there are a few more choices but a little 13 is not something we usually spend a lot of time on "hot rodding". I think it is great you are doing this and once you get it figured out, we'll all know. But to do any "figuring" you're going to have to know how fast the motor is running and how fast the boat goes. For a tachometer, I suggest you pick up a Tiny-Tach which does not cost much and can be mounted right on the cowl of your 35. http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/inde.../index.php For boat speed a GPS used for two way test runs is the only reliable data source. We also need to know what the gear ratio is in the lower unit of a Johnson 35. Your owner's manual will list that information. Once you have some data, get back to us and we'll help you figure out exactly what you need. As it is, I have to say I think you're doing pretty well with what you have right now. Edited by Tom W Clark on 04/05/06 - 12:44 PM
litespeed	#11  Posted on 04/05/06 - 4:07 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 67 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/26/05	Hey Tom, Thanks for your help (again). That little tach is pretty cool. That is exactly what I need. I'll get that first and then post the results on the other thread. Speed, RPM's etc... I'm also only finding a couple manufacturers making stainless props for these engines. Solas, Power Tech and the one you mentioned. AJ
Tom W Clark	#12  Posted on 04/05/06 - 4:24 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	AJ, BRP doesn't make anything in stainless steel that would help your situation, or at least I don't see it listed anywhere. The smallest SST they have is 12-1/2" x 13" and I don't think that will fit your motor. I think the Stiletto Triad I is your best bet. If the Triads are like the Advantage line, they have more pitch than they indicate. I don't think Mercury has anything that will fit. There might be some Turbos that would work. I know nothing about Solas except they are made in Taiwan. Power Tech I have no experience with.
Tom W Clark	#13  Posted on 04/05/06 - 11:08 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	AJ, You can get a Stiletto Triad with up to 14" of pitch or a Turbo Hot Shot with up to 15" of pitch. Don't let the silly names fool you, both of these lines of stainless steel props are very high quality and made by Precision Propeller Inc. in Indianapolis, IN. I can get you either of them for less than $200 delivered to your door.
litespeed	#14  Posted on 04/07/06 - 4:10 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 67 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/26/05	Tom, That Triad 14 looks like a winner!! I really appreciate the input. I still plan to tach the engine with the current setup so I know where I am at (RPM's). Then go from there. The current aluminum 13 has a little too much torque. So the 14 would probably be a good compromise since I sometimes have up to 4 adults in the dinghy. I acutally have a mini-jacker "jack plate". That is not an option with the tiller set up. The jack plate puts the tiller too far out of reach and creates a dangerous situation. It is really easy to fall off the boat on the holeshot. It will be a few months before it is remote. I'm taking my time and doing the inside right. Thanks, AJ