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Considering a Montauk 17 for our family.
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| Perichbrothers |
Posted on 09/28/16 - 11:49 PM
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That's cause whaler owners don't really want to sell.
I've listed our classic 16/17 when thinking about 2-footitis,
but have backed out when we use it on a sunny weekend and it's perfect.
TP
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| tedious |
Posted on 09/29/16 - 5:25 AM
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9R wrote:
Man, what is with Boston Whaler sellers???? Never had so much trouble buying anything before. I've reached out to about 7 so far and boy are they flaky. I'll pay full price but I can't even get them to respond! One promises to show it but keeps getting extended out of country. One took a week to respond to a text saying he'd send pics but I haven't heard from him again and another responded to my initial email 7 days later saying he was trying to attach photos and I'm afraid he'll just disappear. I just don't get it. Wanna sell or not!?
Many sellers are flaky - it's not just boats, and not just Whalers. You'll need to be patient to find the right boat. This time of year, a lot of boat sellers are just bottom fishing - throwing an ad out there, with an unrealistically high price, to see if they get any bites so they won't have to pay for storage.
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| 9R |
Posted on 09/29/16 - 5:56 AM
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It's different around here. I've looked at boats in the midwest before and this held true but down here, they're dump'm for cheap right after labor day. Two excellent condition Montauks have gotten away from me for a very low price and I don't want it happening again so I'm anxious. Same thing happened to my brother last year. He went racing 5 hours away to snatch his up before the other buyer got to it.
Edited by 9R on 09/29/16 - 5:56 AM |
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| JRP |
Posted on 09/30/16 - 8:39 AM
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If you were over here in Chesapeake country you could take your pick of any number of Montauk 17s and 170s. They are abundant.
Be patient and something will pop up. It's only a matter of time.
JRP wrote:...
Also, I will again suggest you remain open to the possibility of an Outrage 18/19. These will give you a lot more capability/space, and should still be within the towing limits of your vehicle.
I meant to include the Outrage 17 in my suggestion above. The original Outrage 17 in particular (http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...album_id=3) is relatively light weight and should be almost as easily trailerable as the Montauk 17.
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| 9R |
Posted on 09/30/16 - 8:46 AM
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JRP wrote:
If you were over here in Chesapeake country you could take your pick of any number of Montauk 17s and 170s. They are abundant.
Be patient and something will pop up. It's only a matter of time.
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Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement. It is frustrating seeing all of the ads for Whalers in excellent condition and at a good price but so far away. I just need patience is all. Hard to do when there were two, in great shape, relatively close, priced very well and just slipped through our fingertips. Oh well.
I did notice the Outrage in those years as you have mentioned and will keep my eyes open. I'm afraid it's even more rare in this area but ya never know...
After winter, if I don't find anything, I may look farther out and consider shipping. Can be a couple grand from East to West but if I get a decent price, it may be worth it.
Edited by 9R on 09/30/16 - 8:48 AM |
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| 9R |
Posted on 09/30/16 - 1:17 PM
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What would be a good price for a 2002 model? Through the numerous images, appears to be very well kept and in excellent condition. Kept in dry stack enclosed storage. Fresh water only. 90hp Merc. New fuel tanks (2x 6ga), fuel line and bow cushion. No aft seat cushions. No fishfinder, GPS or VHF Radio. Comes with trailer.
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| tedious |
Posted on 09/30/16 - 2:44 PM
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Hard to say - it's all about condition. Assuming that's the one in Columbia SC for $16.9, I'd say the seller is a little ambitious but if it's in perfect shape and you could get him down a bit, it might be OK. Find out how many hours on the motor and whether it's carbed or FI. I am guessing it's carbed, but I don't know when they switched over.
One red flag might be the solar charger - not sure why you need that if it is dry stacked.
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| 9R |
Posted on 10/06/16 - 11:53 AM
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Well, this is fun. Just uncovered an international scam and am in the middle of reporting it to the FTC...
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| drewread |
Posted on 10/06/16 - 8:49 PM
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9R wrote:
Well, this is fun. Just uncovered an international scam and am in the middle of reporting it to the FTC...
If it sounds too good to be true, it often is. :)
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| 9R |
Posted on 10/07/16 - 5:03 AM
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That's the thing, it wasn't like that at all. I'm extremely cautious in these matters. Was even in contact with my competition for the purchase after he found me on a forum asking about it and we shared notes. It's how we uncovered it. It was very cleverly done even as noted by the officials.
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| JRP |
Posted on 10/07/16 - 5:42 AM
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9R wrote:
That's the thing, it wasn't like that at all. I'm extremely cautious in these matters. Was even in contact with my competition for the purchase after he found me on a forum asking about it and we shared notes. It's how we uncovered it. It was very cleverly done even as noted by the officials.
Wow, sorry to hear about that. Since it was a scam presumably involving a Boston Whaler, why not share the details so the rest of us can benefit and avoid getting ensnared in the future?
Very much the complete opposite of my buying experience, btw. A fellow member here put me in touch with another member who was looking to sell his boat, and I had the pleasure of dealing with an upstanding gentleman. I get the impression quite a few members here have had similar experiences.
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| 9R |
Posted on 10/07/16 - 6:54 AM
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In a way, I'm sort of afraid for the site's sake to mention the name. It appears that other forums have been hacked or experienced down time because they've asked about this seller/company.
I won't mention the name, just in case. If you're interested, it's a long story but I think that is how they suck you in. Found a craigslist ad for an 2006 BW Montauk. It was in the $15k mark. Not screaming low but a good price, at least around here and it looked like it was in good condition. Typical description, 2nd owner, work done, etc. I reached out to the seller and it took some time for them to respond. When they did, it appeared as if they were having issues with craigslist going to spam and asked for a direct email. I gave them a secondary account I use for such things. Again, slow to respond and they acted like messages weren't getting through. Their responses were a little off kilter as if they were a wife who is going through a divorce or a widow selling off her husbands things, so it sort of made sense. I guess this is a ploy to make you anxious or delay the process to gather others into the group.
After some time they noted that the boat was stored in a warehouse where it could be viewed. Again, slow to respond so I did a google search of the place and couldn't find it. I posted on an area forum asking whether or not anyone knew of this storage location and had another member contact me saying he was looking for the same thing. We compared notes and found that we were both sent the same emails at about the same time so our suspicion was up and started working together. They finally came back with the name of the place which was an auto consignment type. Seemed odd but they had a long story that accompanied it and it seemed reasonable. My very skeptic wife read it and the other emails and even thought I should check it out. Checked out the website and it was very well done. Locations, services, how to sell using them, forms to fill out, terms & conditions, their rates, history of the company, Live Chat, the whole works. Used the live chat to ask some general questions.
Did internet searches of the site and found quite a few forums, very similar to this one, where someone like me asked about the company and service and they had a lot of positive responses. Found news articles about the company start up 4 years prior and about the founders of the company. Found several guys who had just posted a question about the site on thehulltruth forum. One was concerning a BW 210 sale. It started feeling like a very real thing so I broke off communication with 'my competition'.
I started the website's process for negotiation and purchase. It was kind of a slicker version of ebay. The next day, received an email from the seller saying that another person put in an offer as well but that I responded first so they were going with me. Felt honorable. I've done this before when selling through craigslist for a hot item. I thought I had beat out my 'competition'. Received notification from the site and through email, etc. I was planning on going to the warehouse to view it but was struggling to locate it exactly. Google maps was pointing towards office buildings and not something that looked like a storage place. I contacted the company and they said that the address would come with the invoice and that what I had was their office location. Along with it was to come the boat hull ID # so I waited. Received an invoice and it all appeared legit. Had instructions for payment, which they held, until I physically reviewed the boat. The address they provided was located in a neighboring state which is not what I was initially told and it didn't look like a warehouse or storage facility so my suspicions greatly returned.
I said something about viewing the boat before I'd do anything and they then began contradicting themselves. All alarms were in full blaze. Their HQ is supposedly based in Miami so I asked how the hurricane was affecting their business and they didn't know anything about it. Using the Hull ID, I called around several agencies. They said it was a proper number but they didn't have record of the boat. I sent the payment instructions to a friend at my bank and he reviewed. Said it all looked very legit, tracked down the company, etc. I went back to all of the forums where I found positive reviews. Again, they were common sites like this one with great feedback from veteran posters but something seemed fishy. The name of the company is long and they would type it all out every time they used it. No abbreviations, no shortening of the name, nothing. Unusual. They were all like this. I forwarded these links onto my friend at the bank including the 'news articles' about the company and it's founders. He called and said his bank wouldn't let him view them because they were all coming from out of the country. Went back to links, shortened the URL and sure enough, other faux websites from other countries started popping up. It was then obvious. They had copied over or hacked the forum websites to take a thread started by a member asking about the company and changed all of the responses to positive feedback. I relayed this to my 'competition'. I tried to go back to thehulltruth forum members to warn them but the website is down still. Relayed it to my bank and they investigated deeply. Their review department traced it to an address that pointed to a shoddy apartment in New York. Knowing I was onto something, I went back to the Live Chat. I tried to act like I was still interested but having troubles with the transfer and needed to confirm some information. I noted the apartment address in New York and the associated name and was immediately disconnected and cut off from the site. I then went to the FTC to try and find information and have wound up reporting information to them.
Edited by 9R on 10/07/16 - 7:05 AM |
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| 9R |
Posted on 10/07/16 - 8:30 AM
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Very much the complete opposite of my buying experience, btw. A fellow member here put me in touch with another member who was looking to sell his boat, and I had the pleasure of dealing with an upstanding gentleman. I get the impression quite a few members here have had similar experiences.
Wish it was like that. When we very first started looking, we came across an excellent condition 2000 Montauk. Had the aft bench, all cushions and all of the rails as well. Very nice older gentleman who offered to take us out on the water. We held off on the venture until we could see what we could do financially. While trying to work with our bank the boat was sold but then came across a second one in good condition. Problem is that the guy has been flaky for a while so after this recent experience we're extremely cautious. Haven't seen a decent BW in miles so looks like we'll be waiting a while.
Edited by 9R on 10/07/16 - 8:31 AM |
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| tedious |
Posted on 10/07/16 - 12:53 PM
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To succeed in the used Whaler game, you need to have a full understanding of value, have money pretty much in hand and be ready to move fast. I bought my 15 after over a year of looking around - it was posted on a Whaler site and I called the owner within 15 minutes of the ad being posted. Within 15 minutes of that, he had sent new pictures of specific areas of the boat I wanted to look at, and 15 minutes after that, the check was in the mail.
In your scam experience, there were a number of red flags - the slow and squirrelly responses, the warehouse (what private seller does that?), the BS about needing direct mail as CL was going to spam. The scammers are often much better than that - glad you didn't get taken!
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| 9R |
Posted on 10/07/16 - 1:01 PM
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tedious wrote:
In your scam experience, there were a number of red flags - the slow and squirrelly responses, the warehouse (what private seller does that?), the BS about needing direct mail as CL was going to spam. The scammers are often much better than that - glad you didn't get taken!
Yes, there were some red flags that were identified but also possible explanations for them. But even some of these come up in good transactions like for my Jeep and parts purchases I've made. Some of the best experiences I've had that seemed squirrelly at first. Yes, some have had them stored at storage locations and warehouses because they don't want a stranger coming to their house. They'd also meet me at Home Depot or public spaces. It's simple, really and can be easily understood since you don't know who's on these sale sites.
It's one of those things that's easy to stand outside of, point and say 'see' there's one. I've done the same to others. It's not until your involved in it that it's harder to detect. Again, my cautious self, my very untrusting wife, bank, FTC officer and other's that shared the experience said it was very well done and difficult to decypher while it was going on.
I'm now in the middle of finding others in the same mix and trying to help them out.
Edited by 9R on 10/07/16 - 1:11 PM |
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| russellbailey |
Posted on 10/09/16 - 4:23 PM
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9R, one other boat you may want to consider, which is popular along the Gulf in Texas, is the older 1970s Outrage models - in particular I'm thinking the 19 but the 21 is not much bigger.
I grew up in a Striper 15. When I was a teenager, 7 of us would spend the day in it waterskiing - we sat all on top of each other but we did not care. My father would go out in it a lot with my brother and me and a friend. Later, after I got married, we used that same boat to go from Morehead City to Cape Lookout multiple times, sometimes with as many as 6 people in it (my 1980 version was rated for 7, not the 5 that some later models were rated for). So, I've dealt with small size and know how it is.
Before I went big with an Outrage 25, I looked hard at the 1970s Outrage 19, which is for practical purposes a 3' longer version of the Montauk you are looking at - same shallow V style, could easily pull with a minivan, but a lot more interior space - I think it is about 1' wider also. I looked hard at it for the same convenience reasons you are looking at the Montauk 17. It does not need an appreciably bigger engine than the Montauk. If the in-floor fuel tank is good it can be very convenient, and if not you can use a portable just like on the Montauk if you don't want to replace it.
The Montauk 17 is a great boat (as are the side-console variants Striper 17 and Newport 17). But I suspect you may be happier with a 1970s Outrage 19.
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| 9R |
Posted on 10/11/16 - 5:05 AM
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Saw an ad for a 1993 Montauk that appeared in good condition. Received lots of photos and with cash in hand, ran 5 hours away to go pick the thing up. Started reviewing when the transom started showing concern. The seller had placed a 4-stroke 100hp on the back about 10 years ago. Along the back upper edge of the transom, it appeared that the back of the transom was pulling away from the boat. It was hard for me to tell. There was a green edge showing through that was between 1/4 an 1/2 an inch wide. There were also two cracks, each about 5-6 inches long, where the fuel and hydraulics exit the rear of the hull which extended towards the RPS. Seller even hinted that the motor may be too much for the boat which shocked me. Engine had a Whale-Fin hydrofoil on the back which was another bad sign. Disappointed, I turned down the sale and headed the long drive home.
(changed abbreviated year to full 4 digit yer per guideline #1 at the top of this page)
Edited by Joe Kriz on 10/12/16 - 11:33 AM |
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| DennisVollrath |
Posted on 10/11/16 - 10:30 AM
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The green line was likely fine.This was a construction artifact for whalers of that vintage, and unless there was actual delamination it is normal. Here is an article referencing it:
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=75
100hp is not too much power, but the weight of a 100 hp 4stroke may have introduced problems. I think you are describing cracks originating from the sump and heading towards the RPS. This might be troubling.
Good luck with your search.
Dennis
1985 Outrage 18 with Suzuki DF140A |
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| 9R |
Posted on 10/12/16 - 9:09 AM
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Turned it down. The seller had noted precautions with the Yamaha 100 since it was an 2003 and had the same carbed FOURSTROKE problems as the Mercs which used Yamaha powerheads at that time. Was glad he was honest and had just researched this . In addition, the cracks towards the back really concerned me.
(Please follow guideline #1 at the top of this page and use the full 4 digit year)
Edited by 9R on 10/17/16 - 5:20 AM |
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| 9R |
Posted on 10/17/16 - 5:20 AM
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Ah, the search is over. Had a 2011 Montauk 170, in mint condition, follow us home. The family is super excited and can't wait to get her in the water!
Edited by 9R on 10/17/16 - 5:21 AM |
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