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Repowering Super Sport 15
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| tedious |
Posted on 11/03/15 - 12:35 PM
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I am two holes up - that is, one hole down from as high as it can go. I have no grip problems or blowout - might try 3 holes up at some point.
The $500 off is a promotion Yamaha runs every year - I opted for doubling the warranty, which was available at the time on the 70. You'll need new controls anyway so the $500 off would make sense.
You'll love the F70! Since I'm spending your money, try the Quest - I'd love to hear how that goes for you.
Are you planning to get a tach, or connect to your GPS display, via Yamaha's Command Link interface? I have that setup and it's really nice.
Tim
Edited by tedious on 11/03/15 - 12:56 PM |
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| sailorman |
Posted on 11/04/15 - 6:49 AM
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I'm going with the tac. I am trying to keep my boat very basic so going with single digital tac. I don't have a gps. I'm also going to get the fuel water separator but not sure where I will install it so that it is out of sight but accessible. Since I have the blind holes now, they will need to be filled and cleaned up prior to installing new engine.
I am going to put my '01 Johnson 50 on Craig's list and see what it will bring.
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| tedious |
Posted on 11/04/15 - 7:58 AM
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Sounds good. Note that they sell both Command Link tachs and regular digital tachs. The Command Link setup is likely more expensive, but it will let you add a GPS connection in the future if desired. If you care about fine control of trolling speeds, I know the Command Link tach lets you do that, not sure about the other one.
I have a separate fuel-water separator, but only because it came with my boat. I don't know if I'd bother installing it again myself. Despite the great fuel economy, gas just doesn't hang around that long in the portable tanks, and the F70's under-cowling fuel filter is readily accessible and includes an alarm for water. You can see the location my previous owner used for the separator in one of the pics on my personal page. Note that the regs say that you can't use a clear plastic fuel bowl in an enclosed location.
Tim
Edited by tedious on 11/04/15 - 8:25 AM |
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| DennisVollrath |
Posted on 11/04/15 - 10:46 AM
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I have a 2011 Yamaha F70, first mounted on my 1984 15 CC, then transferred to my 1988 Montauk 17. It is a great motor, but I have had 2 instances where a fuel injector became clogged. The manual recommends adding an external 10 micron filter, which I did. Subsequently I have not had any failures. The one I am using is:
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/racor...025-rac-02
This is really small, has a 10u filter as well as water separating capabilities. I've never had any water in the filter after over 250 hours. I'm also using this same filter on my 1985 Outrage 18 with a Suzuki DF140A.
I've also had great luck with the NMEA2000 link from the motor to a chartplotter/GPS combo unit. There is so much information the motor puts out and the chartplotter makes easy to display. I also have the Yamaha digital tach/combo gauge, but very seldom even look at it.
Dennis
1985 Outrage 18 with Suzuki DF140A |
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| Phil T |
Posted on 11/04/15 - 1:44 PM
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From Boston Whaler 15 sport/F70 prop discussion with JMartin and Elaelap.
Get a Yamaha Performance Series prop (Stainless) in 13.25x18. It out performs the aluminum and painted stainless Yamaha props. WOT Rpm's is 6300.
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| tedious |
Posted on 11/05/15 - 4:56 AM
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Phil T wrote:
From Boston Whaler 15 sport/F70 prop discussion with JMartin and Elaelap.
Get a Yamaha Performance Series prop (Stainless) in 13.25x18. It out performs the aluminum and painted stainless Yamaha props. WOT Rpm's is 6300.
Phil, are you sure you got that pitch right? I used the equivalent Stiletto Advantage 1 in 13.25 x 15 and it topped out around 5700 RPM - within the recommended maximum WOT RPM range, but not where you want it. I wouldn't think you could hit even 5000 RPM with an 18-pitch.
More generally, I found the large, grippy prop was a very poor match for the combination of the 15 and the peaky power curve of the F70. I tried both 15 and 13 pitch Stiletto Advantages, and neither one was satisfactory - even the 13 wouldn't spin to redline without a good deal of trim, and it topped out around 37 MPH. And both the 15 and the 13 were dogs - they really felt like they were holding the motor back. Don't get me wrong, they are great props and worked extremely well on my previous OMC 70 - but my experience with them on the F70 was really bad.
I switched to a Power Tech SCD3 in 13 x 16 and the difference is huge, in every aspect of performance - much more responsive, and better top speed too. My unscientific analysis is that the smaller blades on the SCD3 slip more when accelerating, allowing the F70 to spin up more readily to the higher RPM ranges where the F70 makes its power. I believe the SCD3 is very similar to the Yamaha Painted Stainless.
Note that with the 16-pitch in the SCD3 I am a little bit underpropped. That works great for my needs, but if someone really wants to maximize top speed, trimmed out on flat water, I would recommend the 17 or even an 18-pitch.
Tim
Edited by tedious on 11/05/15 - 5:15 AM |
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| sailorman |
Posted on 11/05/15 - 12:40 PM
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Just pulled the trigger. Going with the new F70 with 6 year warranty. I haven't spoken with the dealer yet about prop selection. The invoice just calls for aluminum prop right now. I plan to meet with the installer (rigger) about engine height tomorrow.
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| Simon |
Posted on 11/05/15 - 1:35 PM
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Hi Sailorman,
That's awesome. I have an F70 on hold right now at the dealership. Wondering if I should go with the $500 off or extra 3 year warranty.
Simon
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| Phil T |
Posted on 11/05/15 - 1:38 PM
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Tim - You are right to question. My information came from a 5 year old thread involving 3 members who I trust.
Your results with the 13.25x 15 is interesting since I have read the recommendation to be one size larger (13.25 x 17) Is it possible we are discussing two different motors.
Does your F70 have a WOT rpm of 5300-6300 and gear ratio of 2.33?
Honestly, trust Tim's information since he has the actual results.
Sailor - For your sake, please review this thread on a recent sales experience. While it is not the same brand/model of motor, read the posts on mounting height and prop recommendations and then what the installer said/did.
http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...rowstart=0
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| Superaquarama |
Posted on 11/05/15 - 3:53 PM
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Grabbing the thread a bit here, but I'm wondering about going down in power.
We have a 50 horse Yamaha on out S/Sport 15, which I assume is the original motor circa 1989. Whilst there's nothing wrong with it apart from the usual heavy fuel consumption of a 2 stroke (starts easily, runs fine if a little unhappy at low harbour speeds etc), it is a bit old and I have the chance of a Yamaha 25 4 stroke in very nice order and to the right spec. at a good price.
No idea how fast the boat will go as I've never had it to WoT, but it sees 25kts very easily with 1 or 2 aboard. Boat only used for fishing and as a runabout, so speed and power not too important, but I wonder nevertheless whether I'll find it 25 hp adequate. I'm sure it will be happier at low speeds; our harbour has a 4kt speed limit amongst the moorings.
Any thoughts, anyone ?
Edited by Superaquarama on 11/05/15 - 3:54 PM |
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| wlagarde |
Posted on 11/05/15 - 4:12 PM
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It all depends upon what you want but in my opinion 25hp on a Super Sport 15 is way under powered. You would be lucky to see 25mph. Personally I would take a good running used 50 2-stroke any day over a brand new 25.
Also, I would recommend starting a new thread so the thread title matches your question and you will get more responses.
Edited by wlagarde on 11/05/15 - 4:17 PM
1976 Sport 15 w/ 2005 50hp Nissan 2 stroke |
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| Superaquarama |
Posted on 11/06/15 - 3:40 AM
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Many thanks, Wlagarde, that's the sort of reply I was hoping for. The 25 isn't a new motor, by the way, it's 7 years old but hasn't seen much use and that's been in freshwater. But nevertheless the $1500 price difference would buy quite a lot of fuel !
Just been looking at the pics of your boat - lovely ! I've often wondered if our trailer were the original and it seems to be almost identical to yours apart from the rear crossmember. Has yours been altered ? Ours is just box section, the same as the side rails.
Edited by Superaquarama on 11/06/15 - 3:56 AM |
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| tedious |
Posted on 11/06/15 - 5:08 AM
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sailorman wrote:
Just pulled the trigger. Going with the new F70 with 6 year warranty. I haven't spoken with the dealer yet about prop selection. The invoice just calls for aluminum prop right now. I plan to meet with the installer (rigger) about engine height tomorrow.
Sailor, that's awesome - you're going to love it! Frankly, I would skip the aluminum prop entirely - an aftermarket stainless prop is probably not much, if any, more than a dealer-supplied aluminum one. Hopefully your dealer will be cool with mounting two holes up - as you may have read in other threads, some of them put up a fight. You're smart to have the discussion ahead of time, so you can just walk away if they won't do what you want.
Phil, those are indeed the correct specs for my F70. I can't speak to others' experience, of course, just pass on my own. I apologize for continuing to gush about it, especially as the Stiletto is a great prop and was a super value (apparently too good since they stopped selling them under that brand name) but the switch to the SCD3 was like night and day - made the F70 feel very similar to my old OMC 70 in terms of responsiveness and accelleration. I guess it just tells us that you can only apply so much science to selecting a prop, and then it becomes trial and error.
Tim
Edited by tedious on 11/06/15 - 11:33 AM |
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| wlagarde |
Posted on 11/06/15 - 2:38 PM
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Superaquarama wrote:
Many thanks, Wlagarde, that's the sort of reply I was hoping for. The 25 isn't a new motor, by the way, it's 7 years old but hasn't seen much use and that's been in freshwater. But nevertheless the $1500 price difference would buy quite a lot of fuel !
Just been looking at the pics of your boat - lovely ! I've often wondered if our trailer were the original and it seems to be almost identical to yours apart from the rear crossmember. Has yours been altered ? Ours is just box section, the same as the side rails.
Thanks for the compliment. The trailer is "original" that is Romps Marine paired the Easy Loader trailer with the boat when it was sold in June of 1976. I restored the trailer as well. The only things that were added are the guide ons and the spare tire holder. Easy Loader still has most of the parts available if you need anything.
1976 Sport 15 w/ 2005 50hp Nissan 2 stroke |
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| dgoodhue |
Posted on 11/06/15 - 7:54 PM
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Superaquarama wrote:
Grabbing the thread a bit here, but I'm wondering about going down in power.
We have a 50 horse Yamaha on out S/Sport 15, which I assume is the original motor circa 1989. Whilst there's nothing wrong with it apart from the usual heavy fuel consumption of a 2 stroke (starts easily, runs fine if a little unhappy at low harbour speeds etc), it is a bit old and I have the chance of a Yamaha 25 4 stroke in very nice order and to the right spec. at a good price.
No idea how fast the boat will go as I've never had it to WoT, but it sees 25kts very easily with 1 or 2 aboard. Boat only used for fishing and as a runabout, so speed and power not too important, but I wonder nevertheless whether I'll find it 25 hp adequate. I'm sure it will be happier at low speeds; our harbour has a 4kt speed limit amongst the moorings.
Any thoughts, anyone ?
I personally wouldn't do a 25hp on 15'. I found a person who did 26mph with 25hp tiller. Additonal weight and passengers will quickly drop the speeds. You will likely find your self at wot or near wot most of the time. I have been on classic 13' whalers with 25hp and I would want that to be the minimum performance that I would want. On a 15' that is probably 30hp.
Dave |
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| dgoodhue |
Posted on 11/06/15 - 8:09 PM
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sailorman wrote:
Thanks for the speed estimate. I have been reading about another Whaler 15 owner who went to the F70 and he seems really happy. It is just a pretty big amount of money to have tied up in a boat I just bought this spring for $5,000. The F70 rigged is going to be $9,250.
Before buying my 15' I thought about buying a new 130 Sport. In the end I alway like the classic whaler lines and mahogany, but the much better performance swayed me to buying a classic 15'. Infigure even if I have to repower, it is still cheaper than buying a new one. Fortunately haven't had to repower my boat yet with my 26 year old motor is still seemingly going strong but I would have no problem repowering this boat and enjoying it for years to come.
Dave |
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| sailorman |
Posted on 11/10/15 - 2:42 PM
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I'm picking up my 15 tomorrow with the new F70. I'm pretty excited. The dealer mounted it as you guys recommended. He also said that he would work with me on as many props as I wanted to try. Tomorrow I'm going with the aluminum 16" pitch, just to get started. Next I will try the Power tech SCD3 13X16. Top speed isn't important to me, hole shot for skiing and grip for pulling a tube will be more of a priority with my grand kids. Can't wait!!
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| sailorman |
Posted on 11/11/15 - 12:38 PM
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The new F-70 is pretty amazing. It is incredibly quiet and smooth. I don't know how much my Johnson 50 2 cycle weighed but with the F70 and 6 gallons of fuel she floated on about the exact same lines. The starboard drain hole was 1/4 in the water, the port drain hole was completely above the water. At idle you can hardly tell that it is running. We did the one hour at under 2,000 rpms then did about 20 minutes up on a comfortable plane at 3300. Can't open her up for a while yet. I am very pleased with the choice. Thanks for all the guidance here on Whaler Central.
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| Simon |
Posted on 11/24/15 - 8:35 AM
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Sailorman- how is the motor running? Have you gone past the break in period so you can do some wot pulls? I'm bringing my boat in for the same engine next week and going with the aluminum prop as a starter as well. The shop recommended a 15 pitch but I know you're running a 16 pitch, so wondering how that's working out for you.
What are the break in procedures anyhow?
Simon
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| sailorman |
Posted on 11/25/15 - 2:47 PM
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I just opened her up today for the first time. WOW!!!
The first hour you have to go under 2000 rpms, second hour up on a plane but no full throttle. I just got over the two hour mark and I am really excited. This morning I went out with my 4 grand kids, my wife and I and wide open I got 5800 rpms without messing with the trim we went 33mph. I then dropped everyone off and went out for a quick check I hit 6300 and 40mph by my self with the engine trimmed up a bit. It seemed really FAST. I think that there might be a bit more in it but I was covering so much ground and it was chilly so I came back in. I really love this boat/motor now. The Yahama was my birthday present to me and I have a smile on my face.
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