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Brass Drain Tube Replacement Advice
e_digg	#1  Posted on 06/22/11 - 12:34 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 85 Comments: 0 Joined: 06/09/09	I installed both tubes but the rear tube cracked and was not flush with the transom. Going to try agin this weekend. For those of you that have replaced your own, did you cut the tube at a 90 degree angle from the tube (this is what I did) or did you cut the tube to match the hull transom so it would look more like a parallelogram? I did anneal the tubes but a few days before installing. I installed the rear first and noticed the crack so I re-annealed the other before install. What would you suggest on the angle? Thanks Ed Edited by Joe Kriz on 06/22/11 - 9:11 PM
JohnnyCW	#2  Posted on 06/22/11 - 1:19 PM
Member Posts: 684 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/16/09	I cut mine on an angle to match the hull. However I also used an air hammer with a modified drain tube die to roll the edge. It may not be so easy with a through bolt type drain tube tool. Edited by JohnnyCW on 06/22/11 - 1:22 PM
Joe Kriz	#3  Posted on 06/22/11 - 1:30 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Cut the angle to match the hull. Then use the standard tool to roll it until one side hits the hull... Then use a ball peen hammer to finish off the other side of the roll where it needs to go.
e_digg	#4  Posted on 06/22/11 - 4:16 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 85 Comments: 0 Joined: 06/09/09	I am using the flaring tool (thanks to Kamie) that Twin Cities Marine sells. Would it also help to use a smaller diameter threaded rod to help angle the flaring part of the tool or will that do nothing? What size ball peen hammer? I am assuming a 1" to act like a flaring tool right? Thanks Ed
Joe Kriz	#5  Posted on 06/22/11 - 4:43 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	I use the flat part of the ball peen hammer gently and the roll continues to roll without causing flat spots on the roll itself. If you annealed it properly, there should be no problems.
cmeichler33	#6  Posted on 06/22/11 - 5:58 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 45 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/14/10	I bought a flaring tool from Moeller for the tube install. In the instructions I remember it said to heat the end of the tube up that is going to be flared, then let it cool. This will help with the cracking. Worked for me!
Gamalot	#7  Posted on 06/22/11 - 6:42 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1086 Comments: 3 Joined: 06/21/10	All the flaring tools sold are pretty much the same and none are perfect! Where ever angled flares are the requirement there has to be some finessing of the final flare. My second approach was best when I traced around the angled end on the outside of the transom which clearly showed the angle I needed. I cut the tube at that angle with about one quarter of an inch over hang. The inside roll was already done and fit perfect. I left the flare tool on the inside and blocked so it could not move or distort. I then began working with the other flare tool to start the flare on the angled end and finished as Joe said with a ball peen hammer. The inside and outside flare tools do not allow for angular flaring. You must improvise in this case. In the end, you might see some deformity of the final angled flare but it should not be an issue as long as the O ring remains in place as the seal and you followed the procedure of sealing the flare with a good sealant such as 4200 or 5200. When ever I see a member say the tool works great I have to assume they were not doing the angled lower tube. I was able to make the splash well and forward anchor locker tubes just about perfect and with no real trouble. The lower angled tube gave me a few fits until I realized the tools were not designed to do a steep angle on just one end. It was pretty apparent when I figured there was no such plug that could possibly fit the deformed inside of that angled flare. I will be willing to bet that BW uses a rather specialized flare tool for that particular tube and we can't buy it for the $50-60 we pay for the ones we can buy that do work great for straight flares.
Marty Johns Isd SC	#8  Posted on 06/22/11 - 6:53 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 80 Comments: 2 Joined: 05/17/09	Hey There, I just replaced all of my brass drain tubes(with brass drain tubes). I also bought the flaring tool from twin cities. I cracked two tubes before really reading alot more here on WC. I cut everything at 90 degrees and about two sixteenths longer than the directions that came with the flaring tool. Heat the tube end to be flared to glowing red hot and then let it cool. I found that I had more success if I used a ratchet and socket and tightened it by hand. And more importantly I kept the end of the flaring tool with the NUT on the end of the tube to be flared. I also anealed the pre-flared ends the same as above. I took one end of the flaring tool off, put it IN the pre-flared end and set that down on my vice. Gently tap the straight end of the tube downwards and rolled the pre-flared end a little more. Almost so it would "Cup" the o-ring more. Then I cut that tube to length. If you only do one thing, glowing red hot is the trick. That is what I read here on whaler central to do when you keep cracking brass tubes. I hope that helps. Marty Durham 1989 17' SS Limited
Gamalot	#9  Posted on 06/22/11 - 7:33 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1086 Comments: 3 Joined: 06/21/10	Annealing the metal is an absolute MUST when working with brass tubing. Where the major issue comes into play is that the tools flare washers fit pretty close to square in to the tubes and do not allow for much angle. I don't honestly remember what my lower tubes angle was but I think pretty close to 15 degrees but only on the transom side. I collapsed the tube on the first 2 tries until I did as Joe said and finished with the hammer. I also did some cosmetic work on the transom side flare washer by grinding the sharp inside edge to a round which did allow for some angle. Other threads here showed the benefits of using an air impact hammer or chisel. This was the real Cat's Meow for me after I rounded the sharp edge of one flare washer. As Marty mentions, once the metal is fully annealed the tools work great for straight tubes with a ratchet. For the angled tubes you will have to play a bit and maybe fail once or twice before you get it right. I did the 2 straight tubes near perfect on the first try and failed twice on the angled tube before I came here and got the necessary instructions. Edited by Gamalot on 06/22/11 - 7:39 PM
Joe Kriz	#10  Posted on 06/22/11 - 9:02 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11447 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Some posts have been removed so we stay on topic for the original poster. Otherwise you would be hijacking this members discussion. Everyone please stay on brass tubes which is the topic. See this photo of Brass Drain Tubes for more information. http://www.whalercentral.com/photogal...hoto_id=54 Edited by Joe Kriz on 06/22/11 - 9:12 PM
John Fyke	#11  Posted on 06/22/11 - 11:06 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1307 Comments: 0 Joined: 09/06/06	I thought we were on topic. There are two ways to skin a cat as Gam said and I agree. John Fyke Re-Fit or Reef It 1979 15' Sport with Super Sport conversion and 70hp mercury.
e_digg	#12  Posted on 06/23/11 - 5:57 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 85 Comments: 0 Joined: 06/09/09	Thank you all for the info. I bought 2 more 3" tubes and will try again. My first thought about the cracking is because I annealed it a few days earlier. And yes I used my Propane + Oxy mix torch and got it to a glowing red. The outter tube was the one I did first because I knew if I failed that I could get more locally. The 6" tube had to be ordered. One thing to note is that in my Engineering studies if you let something air cool it will be more ductile. I have however seen a few suggetions to cool it in water. I thought, if I can remember correctly, if you cool something in water that it makes it more brittle. I know that is how it works with steel but maybe different in brass? Don't know. Any how... Thanks for the tips and I will let you know how it turns out. Thanks Ed
Marty Johns Isd SC	#13  Posted on 06/23/11 - 6:24 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 80 Comments: 2 Joined: 05/17/09	Hey e_digg, It is probably best to learn on the 3 inch tubes. They are not too expensive and most marine stores have them in stock. Also watch both sides of the tube as you are tightening and make sure the 0-ring doesn't squeeze out from under one of the flared ends. If you replace the long tube the drain plug goes into I went to Home Depot and and got a threaded rod, cut it the length I neded and put the pieces of the flaring tool on that. Worked really well. Good luck and let us know how things turn out. Marty Durham 1989 17' SS Limited
Tom W Clark	#14  Posted on 06/23/11 - 6:55 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	Ed -- It is very important to anneal the brass to make it more ductile. Whether you quench the brass by letting it cool in air or quench it in water won't matter to the brass. It also doesn't matter how long before flaring you anneal it. If you wanted to toughen brass you have to cool it very slowly, like in an oven over a period of several days, so air cooling and dipping it in a bucket of water accomplish the same thing. I quench my brass drain tubes in water just because it is faster and I don't burn myself so easily. The other tip for annealing the brass is to try to limit the heat to the very end of the tube. I try to keep the flame of my torch on just the very end directing the flame down off the end a bit, not up the tubing. I try to heat it up as quickly as my torch will allow and I try not to overheat it, but instead get it to where it just *maybe* begins to glow red. If you heat it too much, more of the end of the tubing will go soft and then there is a much greater chance of the tubing buckling when you try to flare it. Edited by Tom W Clark on 06/23/11 - 7:15 AM
Tom W Clark	#15  Posted on 06/23/11 - 6:57 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	To answer your question about the angle, YES, you must cut the end of the tube to the angle of the hull so there is a uniform 5/16" of the tube extending beyond the surface of the hull.
Tom W Clark	#16  Posted on 06/23/11 - 7:02 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	The stock dies that come with the flaring tool do not lend themselves to the odd angles the tubes in a Whaler typically have to pass through. The trouble is that the dies fit snugly in the tubing and the "snout" or forward end of them is rather long and held captive by the tubing. That is whey I cut off the end of one of my dies and ground a taper in it. This allows the die to fit into the end of the tube that has an angle of up to 20-25 degrees, like you will find int he bow locker drain of a 22 or the rear sump of an 9 footer (I've replaced drain tubes in both). Likewise, you need to use a smaller diameter all-thread if you want the die to angle to one side a bit. This is where I find the air hammer to be so effective; I can angle it any direction I want while making the flare and I can correct for any unevenness in the flare as I go.
e_digg	#17  Posted on 06/23/11 - 7:05 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 85 Comments: 0 Joined: 06/09/09	Thanks guys. I hope that I can get it done this weekend. The boat has spent the past 20 years out of the water and in the elements. I bought it from my neighbor last year and am trying to get it seaworthy. Just ordered the interior from Nautical Lumber so I got 2 weeks to play with current configuration. Thanks Ed
JohnnyCW	#18  Posted on 06/23/11 - 8:42 AM
Member Posts: 684 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/16/09	Brass doesn't harden when cooled rapidly like steel does. The only way to harden brass is to work it repeatedly. Quenching the hot tubing in water is fine.