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Teak - Oil vs Varnish
mattroche	#21  Posted on 02/28/14 - 10:46 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 39 Comments: 1 Joined: 02/17/08	Tom, I can't speak for the previous owner, and I never have used one of those two part cleaners - on this boat. And, I promise I'll never ever use a two part cleaning system. Scouts honor.
Derwd24	#22  Posted on 02/28/14 - 10:59 AM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	The slip factor under wet bare feet has always kept me from considering varnish. Kids are frequently diving off the boat from the gunwales when at anchor, and though varnish would look great, it is a concern in that regard. Dave - 1983 Outrage 22
Tom W Clark	#23  Posted on 03/01/14 - 7:59 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	I've never used any of the Amazon products so I can't comment on them. I have always uses Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil and I have never had one speck of mold or mildew on any of my teak in 30 years. The key to any durability in a food finish is a smooth flat surface, no raised grain that will hold and harbor dirt and mildew. That is why teak cleaners are so bad. They eat out the soft grain between the hard grain and leave tiny crevices for dirt to collect in. This is also why i recommend wet sanding any teak with teak oil to form a thin paste that will fill any pored or voids in the grain. Once that first coat is set, it can be very lightly sanded to smooth things out again and then subsequent coats can be applied. This same series of steps with the teak oil and wet sanding should be used even if you are varnishing. It forms a good base coat and makes getting a smooth varnish coat much easier.
gchuba	#24  Posted on 03/01/14 - 8:48 AM
Member Posts: 1675 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/31/13	Tom, When you refer to "Wet Sanding", what grit paper? use of sanding block or finger/hand pressure? do you then let it set for a day and go back to it? I am only getting mildew on the undersides of my teak (Watco oil) from condensation (anchor pulpit, bait table). I can almost locate where my water drips are. gchuba
wing15601	#25  Posted on 03/01/14 - 10:56 AM
Member Posts: 699 Comments: 0 Joined: 07/14/12	After having sanded all the teak from my Montauk 17 I've decided to go the oil route, specifically the Daly's Seafin recommended by Tom. All my teak except the anchor locker hatch is covered by canvas when the boat is not in use and it is a Michigan boat so I think a one mid-season re oiling will maintain the finish pretty well. I have a small mahogany sailboat, a CLC Skerry which has a varnished interior and that's enough work for me. I winter in Ft. Myers and summer in St. Joseph, Michigan. It’s now about 12 years since I’ve joined this group. I gave my 1972 whaler to my daughter and sold the 17’. Bought an O’Day 28 sailboat and sailed on Lake Michigan. Yesterday I bought a 2005 130 Sport.
Tom W Clark	#26  Posted on 03/01/14 - 11:05 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	When I wet sand I use 400 grit wet/dry paper folded and held in my hands. I wear disposable gloves and clothes that I don't care about. Though there are no parts on Whaler large enough to justify it, I have used my large Porter Cable Random Orbital Sander, with the speed dialed down, to wet sand large pieces with. It gets messy in a hurry. By applying teak oil and then wet sanding it, you create very fine wood dust that mixes with the oil and creates a slurry or paste that fills the open grain and other voids in the wood. When you are done wet anding, you wipe the piece down with an oiled rag to remove all the excess paste from the surface and leave a uniform coat on to dry. It will usually be dry overnight, depending on heat and humidity. Even when this is done as a base coat for varnish you still want to thin your first coat or two of varnish before applying it full strength.
gchuba	#27  Posted on 03/01/14 - 4:34 PM
Member Posts: 1675 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/31/13	Tom, Thanks for your reply. I saw that my original application method followed manufacturers specs (Watco) and differed than yours. I researched the oils and found a big difference in the types of oil. They also had different application methods and characteristics. Now that I researched I am slightly annoyed that "Watco Teak" should have been called "Watco Linseed". An excellent article by Stephen D. Russell entitled "Tung and Linseed Oils". Part of the summation of the article included: Linseed oil offers a lack of UV protection, will get mildew. Tung oil has an increased resistance to yellowing, water and alkalies. No mildew. I have liked the look of my Watco (Linseed) Oil. I like the application method and the easy (yet often) maintenance. However, I have removed all the accessories from the boat (downrigger mounts, stainless rails. rub rail, etc...) in prep for gel coating and waxing. Now that I have access I am changing over to Tung Oil on my teak gunwales et al. As some of the other teak parts of the boat come up, I will be sticking with the Tung. gchuba Edited by gchuba on 03/01/14 - 4:54 PM
EJO	#28  Posted on 03/03/14 - 7:05 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 669 Comments: 6 Joined: 11/25/12	Tom is talking about creating a "slurry to fill voids" You can also use Smith & Co. CPES this stuff works great as it keeps the same elasticity a the original wood fiber. Read the web pages. Restoring my classic Chris-Crafts and Thompsons I can't recommend a better "primer" before finishing new or 'old' wood. Read tech data and instructions at www.smithandcompany.org for the world greatest primer. (you still need to sand, sorry) Skipper E-J m/v "Clumsy Cleat" a 2008 Montauk 150
gchuba	#29  Posted on 03/03/14 - 2:31 PM
Member Posts: 1675 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/31/13	Doing a follow up to my "Watco Teak Oil" issues. I contacted Watco (aka Rustoleum) and told them of the issues with the mold spots. I also "mentioned" I felt a little mislead by the labeling of the product. Should have been called Linseed oil for teak. They were receptive to my problems. I gave them the lot numbers of my cans (I bought 2 gallons at the same time to have matching oils later down the road). I will be sending them pictures of the pulpit and bait table stains. I also told them of my clean up method with clorox/TSP. They are considering sending me some "Power Stripper" as well as "Jomax" (a mildew killer) to help me strip/clean the wood. They are waiting until they see the pictures. They are aware of mildew issues with the Linseed based product but, the Watco Teak Oil was supposed to contain an anti mildewing agent. Will keep all posted on the progress. I am going to keep in contact with them as far as how best to remove the Linseed oil. I am assuming I am ultimately going to do a bit of sanding. Any ideas or methods I should know about in advance for getting the Linseed off the wood. I will be using some of their recommended stuff but I would hate to miss a step and have potential for mold under a new Tung coating. gchuba
pagosa steve	#30  Posted on 03/04/14 - 9:33 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 8 Comments: 0 Joined: 10/24/12	I am in the process of refinishing all of the wood on my 1981 Montauk 17 and decided to go with the Zar 120 stain followed by varnish. To minimize cutting into the finish, I found stainless steel flanged finish washers at a marine supply store. I thought I would use these in addition to a nylon washer. Just wondering if anyone else has tried flanged finish washers. Having just finished using the Zar stain, the wood looks really great.
Finnegan	#31  Posted on 03/04/14 - 1:19 PM
Member Posts: 1926 Comments: 16 Joined: 05/02/08	Readers, and particularly teak "oilers", shouild be aware that all products sold as "Marine Teak Oil" contain varnish, in varying amounts by brand. I learned this in an article published 15 years ago in a boating mag, where they were testing teak oils for longevity against the elements. They found that the more varnish the teak oil product contained, the better it lasted. This should not be a surprise. I do remember that Daly's Sea Fin teak oil contained the most varnish, at 15%, and accordingly lasted the longest. Many of you know that spilled teak oil drips and runs get hard and yellow on the surrouding gelcoat. Varnish content is the reason, of course. The other thing we know is that one-step teak cleaners are excellent for removing dried varnish spills, from screw heads, etc. For it to clean teak, it has to remove the varnish residue. Excess teak oil always has to wiped off 10 miutes after application, becasue if you don't the varnish in it will harden with a glossy sheen to it. So the issue of whether to oil or varnish is really only about percentages of varnish - 100% or down to 5%-15%.
Tom W Clark	#32  Posted on 03/04/14 - 4:17 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	Larry is essentially correct. Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil can be thought of as a very, very dilute form of varnish. This is why it is such a good base coat for anything that is actually going to be varnished. Teak oil is just a phrase, not a commodity. It is not oil squeezed from Teak tress or Teak nuts. No two "Teak Oils" are the same. You can apply however many coats of teak oil you want; the finish will continue to improve with each new coat wiped on with a rag, but it will be an entirely different looking finish from traditional varnish. It can perfectly smooth but still look hand rubbed, not painted on. Choose the look you like best.
mattroche	#33  Posted on 03/10/14 - 2:51 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 39 Comments: 1 Joined: 02/17/08	Hi Tom, If I understand you correctly, you don't apply any teak cleaners. You simply sand the dark spots out with the wet sand paper and teak oil (slurry), which also gives you the benefit of smoothing out the entire surface of the wood before applying the finish coats of oil, correct? Thanks, Matt
gchuba	#34  Posted on 03/10/14 - 3:30 PM
Member Posts: 1675 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/31/13	Mattroche, I researched my own teak oil and discovered that linseed based oil IS NOT mildew resistant without the additions of other chemicals to alter its normal characteristic. I am in contact with Watco (Rustoleum) to address this matter. Your original issue with your teak oiling complained about the "mold spots" so you may want to check the make up of the base coat on your boat before overlaying with another product. I am planning on stripping the original linseed oil on my boat so as I do not trap a product under the new coating that may mildew. I just sent pictures and left a message to Watco. I will keep all posted. gchuba Edited by gchuba on 03/10/14 - 5:26 PM
gchuba	#35  Posted on 03/20/14 - 8:18 AM
Member Posts: 1675 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/31/13	A follow up with my dealings with Rustoleum (Watco Teak Oil) and mildew/mold spots. They refunded my original purchase price from the retailer ($89.12) and sent me Zinsser Paint and Varnish Stripper. I documented my issues with the Teak Oil and supplied the original recent receipt for my purchase. Their research staff recommended cleaning the teak with chlorine/soap and water after stripping the original oil with Zinsser. I am duly impressed with the actions of Rustoleum Inc.. They requested the lot number of my product (see if ongoing issue with the batch). Lent a sympathetic ear, and came through as best they could for making good on their product. I will start the new application of Tung oil for my wood as time allows. The actions of the of the parent company took the sting out of repeating work. gchuba