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Is there such thing as a 1980's Montauk 170 ?
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| Bo Neato |
Posted on 04/01/12 - 5:21 PM
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Tom W Clark wrote:
Trivia question of the day: We all know there is no such thing as a Nauset 17, so how can I (quite accurately) say there was a Sakonnet 17? It's the exact same hull right? Joe knows this, but let's hear from somebody else.
The designation from 16 to 17 changed along with the new hull when they smirked it in 1976. That first year you could still buy the hull commissioned as a Sakonnet, mahogany console on the "17" hull. The Nauset (and Eastport) configuration wasn't available after 1973.
(how good is my guess?)
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| Bo Neato |
Posted on 04/03/12 - 9:09 AM
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Was I correct?
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 04/03/12 - 9:48 AM
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Bo Neato,
I am not ignoring you but am waiting for Tom.
I guess he got busy...
If he doesn't answer soon, I will...
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 04/03/12 - 10:38 AM
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Bo Neato -- Not quite right. You mix truth and error together in your response.
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| Bo Neato |
Posted on 04/03/12 - 6:18 PM
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Tom W Clark wrote:
Bo Neato -- Not quite right. You mix truth and error together in your response.
The model year? Weren't they actually 1977 models even though they were built and sold in late 1976 like some of the car companies do?
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 04/03/12 - 6:51 PM
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Nope. Close, but nope. I'll deconstruct your original response as a clue.
The designation from 16 to 17 changed along with the new hull when they smirked it in 1976.
This is completely false.
That first year you could still buy the hull commissioned as a Sakonnet, mahogany console on the "17" hull.
Almost, sorta, but not quite correct.
The Nauset (and Eastport) configuration wasn't available after 1973.
True.
I actually thought this was an easy trivia question.
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| kamie |
Posted on 04/03/12 - 7:25 PM
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Tom W Clark wrote:
Trivia question of the day: We all know there is no such thing as a Nauset 17, so how can I (quite accurately) say there was a Sakonnet 17? It's the exact same hull right? Joe knows this, but let's hear from somebody else.
The Nauset configuration wasn't offered after 1973. At that time the Nauset and the Sakonnet were called Nauset 16 and Sakonnet 16. In 1974 the Montauk 16 was introduced and the Sakonnet 16 remained. In 1976, whaler renamed the boat the Sakonnet 17 and the Montauk 17, same hull as before, just a marketing ploy to make you think it's a bigger boat. 1976 was the last year for the Sakonnet.
By 1977 all 17 models were the new smirked hull.
Edited by kamie on 04/03/12 - 7:30 PM |
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 04/04/12 - 4:16 AM
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kamie wrote:
Tom W Clark wrote:
Trivia question of the day: We all know there is no such thing as a Nauset 17, so how can I (quite accurately) say there was a Sakonnet 17? It's the exact same hull right? Joe knows this, but let's hear from somebody else.
The Nauset configuration wasn't offered after 1973. At that time the Nauset and the Sakonnet were called Nauset 16 and Sakonnet 16. In 1974 the Montauk 16 was introduced and the Sakonnet 16 remained. In 1976, whaler renamed the boat the Sakonnet 17 and the Montauk 17, same hull as before, just a marketing ploy to make you think it's a bigger boat. 1976 was the last year for the Sakonnet.
By 1977 all 17 models were the new smirked hull.
I "THINK" I know some of this. The first Montauks hit the water in 1973 and I believe BW always listed them as 17' or at least they never called them the Montauk 16.
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| Bo Neato |
Posted on 04/04/12 - 7:04 AM
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So only classic hulls were sold with wooden consoles?
Both hulls were sold during the 1976 calender year but smirked hulls were designated as 1977 craft?
The change from referring to the hull as a 17 rather than a 16 occurred in 1976, and the new hull production started in 1976, but the two changes aren't directly related?
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 04/04/12 - 7:26 AM
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Bo Neato wrote:
So only classic hulls were sold with wooden consoles?
Both hulls were sold during the 1976 calender year but smirked hulls were designated as 1977 craft?
The change from referring to the hull as a 17 rather than a 16 occurred in 1976, and the new hull production started in 1976, but the two changes aren't directly related?
I think you are going further astray Bo Neato. There are 1976 Smirked Hulls and Joe is searching for the ones right at the transition at the top of the Boat section. I still don't know YET if my 1974 True Montauk was ever called a 16' but right here I have been told that it is a 17' even though it is 16' 7" in length.
I think if we pester Joe and Tom enough they will clarify this trivia.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 04/04/12 - 7:28 AM
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The first Montauks hit the water in 1973 and I believe BW always listed them as 17' or at least they never called them the Montauk 16.
Completely false.
Both hulls were sold during the 1976 calender year but smirked hulls were designated as 1977 craft?
This is false too.
So only classic hulls were sold with wooden consoles?
Confusing question. Both smirked and non-smirked 16'-7" hulls are known as "classic".
By 1977 all 17 models were the new smirked hull.
Absolutely true.
1976 was the last year for the Sakonnet.
True
In 1976, Whaler renamed the boat the Sakonnet 17 and the Montauk 17, same hull as before...
This is essentially (but not entirely) the correct asnwer; even Kamie misses an essential part of why this is all so confusing.
...just a marketing ploy to make you think it's a bigger boat.
False. But why?
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 04/04/12 - 7:48 AM
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I am going by what is here in the model info section. The Montauk is and always has been listed as a Montauk 17 there and the first models appeared in 1973 according to this site. As stated earlier, Chuck Bennett sent me the info on my boat and claimed his records show it as a Montauk 17 from the factory in July of 1974.
I reserve the right to blame my misunderstandings on others!
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 04/04/12 - 7:52 AM
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Fair enough.
When the Montauk was introduced in 1973 (for the 1974 model year) it was known, like all the other 16'-7" models, as a 16, not a 17.
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 04/04/12 - 7:58 AM
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Tom W Clark wrote:
Fair enough.
When the Montauk was introduced in 1973 (for the 1974 model year) it was known, like all the other 16'-7" models, as a 16, not a 17.
We show 5 Montauks in our members boat list as model year 1973?????
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 04/04/12 - 8:01 AM
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Whadya know? My mother always said it's a dull day when you don't learn something new ;-)
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 04/04/12 - 8:06 AM
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Tom W Clark wrote:
Whadya know? My mother always said it's a dull day when you don't learn something new ;-)
Fair enough ;-)
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 04/04/12 - 8:36 AM
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Now for a little cheating!
In 1973 the Eastport and Nauset wooden center consoles ceased production. A new style molded fiberglass center console and the Reversible Pilot Seat were adapted to the 16-foot hull, creating the Montauk-I model. A companion Montauk-II model added standard bow railings and a molded bow platform. After 1974 the bow railings were standard and the boat was referred to just as a "Montauk"; order the molded bow platform and you had a "Montauk-II".
In 1976 the 16-foot Whaler was redesigned, and hulls from the new molds were thereafter known as "17-foot" hulls, although they retained the same length (16' 7" and beam (6' 2" as the earlier boats. The original 16-foot hull shape,
If the above from the CW site is correct then this would designate my 1974 Montauk with the front bow rails and the forward molded bow platform as a Montauk-ll.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 04/04/12 - 10:08 AM
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The 1974 Boston Whaler catalog and 1974 Price List show the Montauk as "MONTAUK 16"
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 04/04/12 - 10:33 AM
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Tom W Clark wrote:
The 1974 Boston Whaler catalog and 1974 Price List show the Montauk as "MONTAUK 16"
Thank you for that tid bit of info. I hope you can see why many of us are confused where models and lengths are concerned. At the CW site they clearly state the first Montauks were either Montauk-l with no bow rail and no bow platform or Montauk-ll with bow rail and platform. For us novices, where are we to learn these things if not here or at the other site?
I get the impression for the purpose of calling my boat correctly here I should use the Montauk 17 designation because that is how Joe lists it.
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 04/04/12 - 11:44 AM
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OK....
The first Montauk we have listed was made in February of 1973....
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=17
In my opinion, this cannot be a 1974 model year.... It just doesn't follow what Whaler has ever shown. Being built in February of 1973, it just didn't make it into the 1973 catalog as the catalog was already released.
So, I stand behind the 1973 model year Montauk. This point can be, and probably will be, discussed forever....
*Now here is how I see and show things on this site.... (In General)
All 16' 7" Smirkless hulls, 1975 and below, were called 16 hulls.....
All 16' 7" Smirked hulls, 1976 and newer, were called 17' hulls...
Yes, there are some exceptions to that rule but it makes it simple for 99% of the members here including myself...
For the real technical and nit-picky members, you would probably already know the other technical details.
For instance, there were a few 1976 Montauk 17' hulls that were smirkless but not very many..
(Note: this did not have the Montauk 17' decal on the side. (This is all you Whalergeeks like Tom and Myself)
As Tom mentions, the first Montauk was called:
Montauk 16
Montauk 17
Montauk 17' or 17' Montauk
Whether you want to say it backward or forward really makes no difference as Whaler listed some of them both ways either in their catalog or on the side of the boat...
In 1976 Smirked Montauk hulls, the decal on the side of the boat was Montauk 17'.....
This was the first Montauk that we know of that used decal names on the side of the boat.
Now, back to the answer for the title of this questions.
Is there such thing as a 1980's Montauk 170 ?
ABSOLUTELY NOT................
The Montauk 170, or 170 Montauk, was not made until 2002 along with the other 3 digit name change of all the models....
The Montauk 170 has a completely different Accutrack hull then all the prior Montauks.
We have a separate listing and category for this new Accutrack hull model.
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...lbum_id=34
Everyone should get the idea now.
When someone says they own a Montauk 17', then we are 99.9% sure they own a 1973 to 2002 Classic Montauk hull.
Even though the earlier models were not really called that, we know what they have..
If someone says they own a Montauk 170, then we can also be sure they own a 2002 or newer Accutrack hull.
Completely different than the earlier Montauks...
Same goes for the other models. Look on the side of the boat for a model name from the factory...
(Early models did not have these decal names)
If the side of your boat has a decal saying Montauk 170, then that is what it is...
In summary, this is how I do things for simplicity. Some of the groups are not 100% technically correct, but again, it makes it easy to list and categorize things on this site.
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