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New, Bare Hull Guardian 19' to Montauk 190 Project
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| acordts |
Posted on 11/21/08 - 10:51 PM
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I obtained a 19' Guardian bare hull to rig myself, from scratch. Looking for wish-list advice how YOU would do this project. I will appreciate any comments about all facets. My thoughts at the moment: 115 Hp e-tec for the weight savings. Hydraulic steering. Mt-3 control. A custom consule of a far simpler geometrical design than the factory version, which will feature NO drink holders. NO rails of any sort so I can get out of the boat easily (and back into it easily after I fall overboard).
Seating: not sure yet; maybe a 120 qt. size Igloo type cooler on brackets so I can kick it out of the way for tons of free floor space aft of the consule for a casting space...or as sleeping bag space on bass fishing overnighters.
My thinking is the consule placement, size, and design are key: Is there a way to rig an easy on/easy off windshield hardware? I need the inside precious dry space, but I want HUGE walkaround room on both sides. I've measured the width and height of the Whaler "stock" consules on both their 17 and 19 Montauk models, and I think the size of the stock consule they put on their 19 is "too big" for what I want to accomplish.
I rigged a 17 Alert bare hull eight years ago, and learned a lot doing so; and I ended up with a really clean rig. How could I resist upsizing to the 19' when they came out with it?
Bonds, Sauerkraut
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 11/22/08 - 1:14 AM
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What year is this 19' Guardian bare hull?
And you want to turn it into a Montauk 190?
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...lbum_id=35
Here are some photos of standard Boston Whaler center consoles for years up to about 1995.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=58
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| WhalerDan |
Posted on 11/22/08 - 7:37 AM
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There's a Guardian console for sale on eBay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Boston...iesQ5fGear
And another:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-1...iesQ5fGear
Edited by WhalerDan on 11/22/08 - 7:39 AM |
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| acordts |
Posted on 11/22/08 - 4:14 PM
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Thank You for all this information! This is a great site.
The Guardian hull is brand new: 2008. And yes, to the question that I will basically be turnng the hull into a 19' "Montauk", minus the drink holders, rails, and a Mercury product.
Bonds, Sauerkraut
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 11/22/08 - 5:19 PM
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sauerkraut,
Good. Now we know a little more information about what you intend to do.
You have a brand new Guardian 19' which has the same hull as the 190 Montauk with the squared off bow.
Guardian 19'
Also available for this model is the Alert side console.
Have you viewed the option on the Whaler commercial site?
I have attached the floor diagram from Whalers site for the Alert model with the side console.
Joe Kriz attached the following image:
[11.93Kb]
Edited by Joe Kriz on 11/22/08 - 5:19 PM |
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| acordts |
Posted on 11/23/08 - 8:12 PM
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Thanks for your reply about a side consule setup for this project, but I'm going to center-consule this 19. I am sure the local BW dealer is getting tired of me eyeballing his Montauk 19's and not buying anything. I assume it is okay to screw down a consule on that big piece of "screwed down" glass floor panel which essentially covers the 60 gal. tank?
Another look around question I have-- is how do I get a 12 volt wire up front for a bow light? Does the wiring run in the rubrailing? OUCH if it does; this means I'll have to remove it to get a wire into it.
I'm picking up the engine this coming week. I found a good-will dealer who will fork lift the crate into my truck, and send me home with the proper lifting eye, drill bit, and template. I bring the finished product back to him for the initial engine start. We're a long way away from that stage, but it also looks like a long winter...
Bonds, Sauerkraut
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| WhalerDan |
Posted on 11/24/08 - 4:43 AM
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You should bring your boat to Edgewater Florida during Xmas, put an ad in the local help wanted, and get some laid off or on vacation Boston Whaler employees to finish your boat for 25 cents on the dollar. I'm only half-joking.
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 11/24/08 - 1:23 PM
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sauerkraut,
I was going by another thread where you recommended NOT to convert to a center console so I thought you were not wanting a center console.
http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...post_34167
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| acordts |
Posted on 11/24/08 - 4:24 PM
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Whaler Dan: Great idea to help out some probably beleaguered, in the trenches Whaler factory lads. I would hope instead that the Company would just be a little more flexible and innovative to move an extra hull or ten.
Mr. Kriz: I did give a moment of thought to a long side consule on this 19' the way i did with my 17' but decided in favor of a 17 Montauk sized center consule, only aboout 30" wide. This 19' hull is 81" wide on the inside and should leave a relative hallway on each side.
Now, about getting a 12 V. wire to a bowlight-- do I remove a brand new rubrail?
Bonds, Sauerkraut
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 11/24/08 - 4:46 PM
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No problem Mr. Sauerkraut or is it Mr. Bonds ??
Edited by Joe Kriz on 11/24/08 - 4:47 PM |
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| Barryg |
Posted on 11/24/08 - 7:04 PM
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All of my 12v wires are behind the rub rail. Also how are you saving weight with an E-tec? BG
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| acordts |
Posted on 11/25/08 - 8:09 AM
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Barryg wrote:
Also how are you saving weight with an E-tec? BG
BG: I'm pretty sure I am saving some weight from the stock, Mercury 115 hp. 4-stroke which is usually delivered with these boats; and I am certain that the Honda 4-stroke 115 hp. is close to 498 lbs.
I just love the Hondas. I have two of them-- just 50hp's, both pushing 17 Montauk hulls. Definitely and deliberately underpowered to be sure, which is just great for one solo person, and also great for countless hours of yearly slow trolling (in the Lake Ontario fishery). However, when I repowered these 17's years ago, from a 70 hp. 2-stroke Evinrude, I was "forced" to step down in 4-stroke power in order to maintain roughly similar transom weight.
Every pound makes a difference in anybody's small boat.
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| Barryg |
Posted on 11/26/08 - 3:15 PM
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I am under the impression that alot of people think the etec is the weight of a 2 stroke and there not. Merc 115 4 stroke 399# and E-tec 115 in at 375#. I also slow troll and am sold on the 4 stroke for that. I had the 70 evenrude 4 stroke(Suzuki) on my Montauk and was very happy with it. Are you going to be slow trolling with the Gaurdian ?
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 11/26/08 - 4:04 PM
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We need to look at several other things about engines here also.
Barry,
1. The weight you give for the Mer 115 4 stroke is for the 20 inch shaft.
You would need to add 5 more pounds or so to that for a 25 inch shaft which is what the Outrage use for single motor applications.
2. The Merc 115 4 stroke is NOT as clean as the E-Tec 115.
The E-Tec is CARB3 rated but the Merc 115 4 stroke is NOT...
This makes a lot of difference to a lot of people, especially for the Californians.
Check out the article I wrote for Current Engine Choices.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=6
I agree, some of the 4 strokes have been losing weight but they are still heavier that the E-Tec 2 strokes.
Trolling is absolutely no problem with the E-Tec. They are not like the earlier 2 strokes as they don't load up. They are clean burning.
Personally, I am not sold on the 4 strokes.
1. Too many moving parts.
2. Too many scheduled service appointments.
3. Heavier than the E-Tec...
4. Some of the 4 strokes are not as clean (CARB3) rated as the E-Tecs.
I have no intention of getting in any wars here over 2 stroke versus 4 strokes.
They are all good engines these days.
However,
Those 4 points I listed above in bold cannot be argued... They are facts...
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| acordts |
Posted on 11/26/08 - 6:25 PM
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Thanks, BG and JK for your discussions. I do not plan on virtually any slow trolling with the Guardian/115 hp. setup. It sure seems like there is a lot of hocus-pocus mis or dys--information out there about engine weights, and engine horsepowers. But JK's post seems reassuring that I'm not a total idiot as I'm two days away from bolting on the new engine.
Okay, now for the 12 V. wire for a bow light: I have to rip off the rubber part of the rubrail, right? Are there any tricks to this, or anything I need to beware? We're in an unheated garage. Do I need heat to do this rubrail?
Thank you (and Bonds to all Whaler owners)
Sauerkraut
Edited by acordts on 11/26/08 - 6:30 PM |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 11/26/08 - 6:35 PM
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Well, I wouldn't rip it off. You might want to reuse it..... 
Definitely it needs to be warm... Definitely...
Make sure it is soft and moveable.
But first of all, make sure you don't already have wires running in there.
You can pry off the bottom edge of the black rub rail using a wooden tool. I have a strong wood putty knife I use. Pry off the bottom in one section and you should be able to start pulling it out. See if there are any wires under there.
I am not familiar with the Montauk 190 hull so I don't know where these wires would even start from. On the Classic Outrage series, these wires start at the midsection of the hull and then run forward thru the rub rail.
Where are your wires supposed to start from? besides the console of course?
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| acordts |
Posted on 12/03/08 - 5:32 PM
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So, my project progress, as I mentioned in my comments to the "190 Montauk Owners" Thread on the General Discussions page...115 hp. E-tec. is bolted on; the center consule of most modest size (and resultant huge walk-around room) is chosen and being fabricated.
Getting a 12 V. wire to a bowlight is a real hassle in my mind at the moment. Brunswick Commercial Products Inc. "thinks" that the wire runs in the stbd. rubrail to the aft quarter of the boat where they fuse the stern mold to the rest of the boat mold. Then this wire winds up below decks and thence to the center consule, etc. So, they lay this wire up during molding-production they "think"! God help us that any number of Whaler dealers and salesmen around here would know what's going on! So, I guess the stbd rubrail comes off; I run a wire, hopefully in the rubrail right around the stbd stern quarter and all the way back to the engine, and then have the wire follow the motor wiring through the tunnels all the way back to the consule.
The hassle in my mind is that I want to think this all out thrice before I drill once.
I have some questions: for the standard Whaler 190 Montauk bow fixture, is this Whaler part #1748820? And is the price of approx. $162 about right? This seems awful cheap, and therefore I'm wondering, without seeing a picture or the fixture if I'm thinking the right thing. I recall paying over $275, three years ago for the bow light fixture for one of my 17 Montauks.
Hydraulic steering: Does anybody have any thoughts about the Baystar kit vs. the much more expensive Seastar systems?
Thank you, Sauerkraut
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 12/03/08 - 5:48 PM
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The Baystar is a fine system for motors up to 150 hp...
150 hp and over should utilize the SeaStar.
Note the dividing line at 150... Originally Teleflex said it was OK to use the Baystar on the 150 hp motor but later changed slightly to say up to, but not including 150.
They might have changed this again but still, for a 150 hp motor, I would use nothing but the SeaStar for the 150 hp and over.
So for your 115 hp, the Baystar will be fine.
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| acordts |
Posted on 12/09/08 - 5:59 PM
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Okay...thank you, guys, for helping me in the Personal section how to post a picture.
The bow fixture is off my 1983 17' Whaler that, years ago, I could not bring myself to throw away when I replaced it with a newer, shinier, more watertight fixture that did not have a broken red/green lens. Now I am undecided whether I should do this new hull project with a new 190 Whaler bow fixture (roughly $175), or rechrome, relens, and retap this fixture for roughly twice as much! What would you do?
The center strip of the rubrail peels out neatly and easily. Assuming there is room in that space for two 16 Ga. wires, for a wire run all the way back to the stern, then all my fretting about bow wiring this bare hull was unnecessary.
One thing I will NOT do is take the fiberglass floor up that overlies the fuel tank. I will do everything to avoid this. It is really screwed and sealed down. here is a fiberglass "rain gutter" that runs along the stbd edge of the fuel tank for hose, cable, and wire runs from stern to center consule which does not look accessible short of lifting said floor.
acordts attached the following image:
[73.22Kb]
Edited by acordts on 12/09/08 - 6:21 PM |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 12/09/08 - 8:27 PM
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I would purchase a new 190 Montauk bow fixture...
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