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Bow Light problem on a nauset-Not the wires!!
Davidk	#1  Posted on 03/23/08 - 2:53 PM
Member Posts: 196 Comments: 1 Joined: 12/05/07	Ok...I have spent 4 hours trying to get my bow light working on my Nauset. I have verified that I have power at the bow light socket (where the light sits). I have also verified that the light works with another 12 volt source. When I put the light in the socket it won't work. Clearly one would think I need to clean the inside of the socket. Well I did that in the first hour of work, as well as try new bulbs. I'm at witts end. This is basic electronics and it SHOULD be working. Does anybody know how to replace the light socket inside of the bracket of a classic (Nauset) hull?
MW	#2  Posted on 03/23/08 - 6:52 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1827 Comments: 10 Joined: 01/08/06	I would run a jumper set of wires (like lamp cord, or something) from the switch, to the the light, try the light that way, if it lights up, your problem is in the wires "from the switch to the bow light". Many electrical problems are a bad ground, try by-passing the switch too, it might be a faulty switch, or a short in the main wires in the hull. My last bow light nightmare turned out to be the glass cartridge between the metal contact's of the bulb had become loose, sometimes we had bow lights, sometimes we didn't, I cleaned everything up on the test bench at work and "All systems checked out O.K.", put it back on the boat and "Nada", back to the bench, "O.K", test bulb, O.K., clean all contact's w/"electrical cable cleaner" and apply space age "dielectric grease", put it back on the boat, Nothing, I finally saw the glass bulb was barely loose from the contact's. the spring's get weak/corroded/tired too in the socket, hope this helps. mw
Davidk	#3  Posted on 03/23/08 - 7:01 PM
Member Posts: 196 Comments: 1 Joined: 12/05/07	Been there done that. Everything is checked out. The light is verified to work. The socket has 12 volts when the power is turned on. The socket and light have been sanded clean. When I put the light in the socket I get nothing. My last resort is to replace the socket, but I have no idea how to do that. If anybody knows how to remove the socket from the chrome bow light frame, that would be appreciated.
CES	#4  Posted on 03/23/08 - 7:19 PM
Member Personal Page Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 2681 Comments: 7 Joined: 04/27/07	Sounds like a bad ground to me. There's a tab in the base of the light that bends upward and makes contact with the lense when the lense is attached to the light. Sometimes the tab on the base will not make contact with the lense. The remedy to that is to bend the tab up a little. I had the same problem with my light and it drove me crazy until I put a little OHMS law into the equation. Figured it out and the light works wonderfully now. Good luck. Cliff 1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker
Davidk	#5  Posted on 03/23/08 - 8:13 PM
Member Posts: 196 Comments: 1 Joined: 12/05/07	Well you bring up a good point. The center tab is a spring. I suspected that might be the problem so I bent the spring around a little so that it would make better contact. Still no luck. Additionally, I get good voltage at the tip of the spring and the inside of the holder. E=IR
danedg	#6  Posted on 03/23/08 - 8:43 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 349 Comments: 6 Joined: 01/24/06	Welcome to Ancient Whalerdom.... Grab 20' of speaker wire and run a temporary circuit from rear terminal block to bow light....bypass the ancient ones molded into your hull... I'll betcha 50 cents your bow/stern light will come on...they are on the same circuit aren't they? My experience was that the old wires could still be tested...but wouldn't operate....they're toast!...it'll drive you nuts! The light assembly is fine...it IS the wires... Then.... install new wires under the rubrail from the stern...to the bowlight....they should last another 40 years or so Give it a try.... Edited by danedg on 03/23/08 - 8:44 PM
Derwd24	#7  Posted on 03/23/08 - 8:59 PM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	The other thing to keep in mind David is that because there's voltage present, it doesn't mean that the circuit is capable of carrying current, especially enough to power the bulb. The current required for your DVM to show a voltage is minimal, but the current required to light an incandescent bulb is many times more. Many people get stumped by this, and it's usually caused by a weak contact somewhere in the circuit that allows enough current through to show a voltage but is incapable of powering the circuit to needed capacity. Could be anywhere. Sometimes you can feel around with the bulb in place and the switch on as the weak link can get hot, but not all the time. So don't think that you're losing it...
MW	#8  Posted on 03/24/08 - 4:42 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1827 Comments: 10 Joined: 01/08/06	Dave K. Stay on it, we've all lost our mind's with "Bow" light electrical work, you'll Isolate it. Last year my "Bilge pump" got me "twisted", along with the wiring, I tore the whole thing out in frustration and threw it into the middle of the street, I quickly regained "Some" sanity, and went out and swept it up, I was so pissed off, I went to the marine store and said "Gimme a new Pump, float, wires, etc., I installed it all new (again). I explained to my wife that "it's a bilge pump, very important", she just stood there stairing at me, snapping her gum, and saying "On a boat that does'nt sink.... right" !... with your enigma, I'm betting on it being the light itself, or the wires (as stated above). We only have a few factor's here: *Light *wires to light *switch *wires to switch *12v power source Battery/ fuse what can't we see ? the wires to the light, you said that you ran a pair of "temporary" jumper wires (pos. & neg.) to the front light from the battery, and still no luck ? then it's the light itself. "Bow light's", how come something so simple, can be so frustrating , you might have to bite the bullet and get a new light, fish new wires (not that hard), and just go "New" all the way, you have to have dependable "Navigation Lights". Good Luck, stay on it. mw
Davidk	#9  Posted on 03/24/08 - 6:40 AM
Member Posts: 196 Comments: 1 Joined: 12/05/07	Derwd24 and MW....Thanks. You're bringing sanity into the situation. The one item I have not verified is the wires to the light socket. I assumed (probably incorrectly) that since I have voltage at the light socket, then the light sould work. I guess it is possible that the wires have signifigant resistance in them and not enough current is making it to the bulb to light it. But still getting enough to trigger my meter. I will run a test set of wires up to the light from the transom and solder them into the light socket. If that works, than the wires are too far gone to operate. If that doesn't work, I'm back to the socket being messed up.
Derwd24	#10  Posted on 03/24/08 - 7:22 AM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	I'd suggest starting off by going right from the battery to the socket, this will test the integrity of the socket... (and sorry to ask this, but did you verify that the bulb actually works?). If that works, go from the switch to the socket and see if that works. If so, the only thing left is the wires being bad...
Davidk	#11  Posted on 03/24/08 - 5:11 PM
Member Posts: 196 Comments: 1 Joined: 12/05/07	Yes. Everything is tested and works separately. Its only when I put the light in the socket that the light doesn't come on. The most reasonble advice so far is that there is a currect loss in the wires. There is good enough to show 12 volts at the light socket (on my volt meter), but I cant get the light to come on. I'm wondering if I can step up the voltage or current back at the transom, so that by the time the power gets to the light there is enough power to turn the light on. I may be able to step up the voltage or current with a transformer. If my Ohm's law is currect though, For anything I gain, I will loose something else (certain circumstances). Also, when I went to Radio Shack to buy a different light bulb, I see they have other bulbs that work at 6 or 8 volts. Ohm's law being what it is, if I lower the voltage requirement, I should have higher current. The question becomes, can I get enough light out of a bulb that runs on lower voltage? Maybe the answer is in the use of multiple LEDs.
ioptfm	#12  Posted on 03/24/08 - 5:48 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1533 Comments: 3 Joined: 10/28/06	In my opinion adding a transformer will be adding to your headaches down the road. It has got to be either a faulty connection at the light or a partial break in the wire from the battery. I would first of all disconnect the bow light and then connect the existing wiring directly to the light bulb itself with one wire on each connection spot on the bulb. Usually a tip at the base and then anywhere on the sides. If the bulb lights, then you have a faulty or corroded connection within the light housing itself that you will have to address by either cleaning or resoldering. Tom 1979 Sport 15'
kamie	#13  Posted on 03/24/08 - 7:03 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	skip the switch, the old wires etc. get a set of battery clips ( west marine) and a length of 16/2 wire. Strip the wire, install the battery clips, then strip the other ends of the wire bare or install smaller alligator clips. To test an 12 volt item (lamps, GPS ...) strip the power cord, positive and negative, then clip your test power lead to the item to be tested and clip the other end to the battery. Light should turn on, GPS or FF should power, blink, whatever it's supposed to do. If you find the bulb lights, then the socket and wires are good, if not look for loose wires in lamp socket. If it works, then install the light and hook your tester to the bare wires where they exit the hull, again the lamp should light. If your good, keep adding parts, fuse block, switch until you find the part that's not working.
Davidk	#14  Posted on 03/26/08 - 4:50 PM
Member Posts: 196 Comments: 1 Joined: 12/05/07	ISSUE RESOLVED....Well I was about to get really agrivated about the wires. Something made me go back to the transom and pull off the terminal block that covers the hole where the wires go into the hull. Don't ya know, one of the wires came off in my hand (two pieces are soldered right as it goes into the hull). Well the solder joint was bad. I re-did it and now have a beautifull bright light up on the bow. I even replaced the buld with a more powerfull one. Thanks for everybody's help.
MW	#15  Posted on 03/27/08 - 2:18 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1827 Comments: 10 Joined: 01/08/06	see, it was in a spot that you could'nt see. ????? BTW the solder joint was fine, the wire corroded at the solder joint, that's what happen's, glad you got it, never give up. mw
egerrity	#16  Posted on 03/27/08 - 5:45 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 439 Comments: 2 Joined: 07/11/07	Congrats!!! I was getting stressed just reading the thread! I learned alot from this thread. Ill be doing the same project soon Ed 1991 Montauk 17 - 2012 ETEC 90HP
Davidk	#17  Posted on 03/27/08 - 2:59 PM
Member Posts: 196 Comments: 1 Joined: 12/05/07	Yup....It was stressing me to think of having bad wires for the bow light. You can't imaging how happy I was the first time I found that the wires were still good. Well 2 out of 3 of them were good. I couldn't get continuity on one wire. Fortunately I only need 2. I don't really know why they put that 3rd one there.
kamie	#18  Posted on 03/27/08 - 5:39 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	The third wire is there to replace one of the other two should it go bad.
Davidk	#19  Posted on 03/27/08 - 6:03 PM
Member Posts: 196 Comments: 1 Joined: 12/05/07	...and thats probably the case here. I wish they had used stranded wire verses the solid core they used. You can only bend the solid stuff so many times before it breaks.
danedg	#20  Posted on 03/28/08 - 5:26 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 349 Comments: 6 Joined: 01/24/06	Cool! It's alway's sumpin simple....we're all too smart for that sort of thing....they only ran 2 wires to my bow light... And now what are you gonna do?..... Replace the transom E block? Lemme know....cause all I could find was this cheesey terminal block...that didn't match up to the old holes.... After 3 years...I can already see it goin'.... Funky terminals...bad ground...bad connections.... It probably looks like this.... danedg attached the following image: [48.44Kb] Edited by danedg on 03/28/08 - 5:37 PM