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Teak - Oil vs Varnish
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| mattroche |
Posted on 02/22/14 - 12:07 PM
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Hi,
I'm getting a weary cleaning and oiling the teak every spring on my 1988 Montauk.
While the oiled teak looks "Bristol" at the beginning of each season by mid-season, IMO it looks terrible. At the advice of just about everyone here I've been using Amazon products. I don’t believe it’s the fault of their products or my prep. I think part of the problem is my using a mooring cover. I suspect it traps enough moisture underneath it to create/stimulate black mold spots on the wood.
I'm considering varnishing the wood from the RPS, to the louver doors and the anchor locker. Because of their vicinity to water (boat washing) I varnished the cooler cleats and the console feet trim. Both still look terrific after two seasons.
Anyone care to chime in and give me some insights about what I might not have thought about before I make the switch from oil to varnish?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Matt
(moderator note: changed the abbreviated year to the full 4 digit year)
Edited by Joe Kriz on 02/22/14 - 12:10 PM |
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| gchuba |
Posted on 02/22/14 - 9:15 PM
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I took a personal choice. I use Watco Teak Oil. I am basically a lazy person. The finish for varnishing the teak was too much work for me to strip. An old wood re-finisher (an old Englishman who commercially bought and sold teak) said oil it up. When it fades, scuff it up and hit it with oil. I have some louvre doors out of the sun that look beautiful two years later. I have some teak gunwale caps that faded in 3 months in the sun. I like the old look. I believe the choice is to allow for fading or do it with the gloss finish. I have some "mold spots" underneath some of my oiled teak but it cleans up easily (bait table and anchor pulpit). I like rubbing down my boat and chatting with fellows at the marina.
gchuba
Edited by gchuba on 02/23/14 - 7:38 AM |
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| EJO |
Posted on 02/25/14 - 12:25 PM
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There is a 50% group all in favor for oil and the other 50% say varnish. Oil is by today's standards still the same as what was used many many many years ago. Varnish in contrast is getting better and better each year.
I'm in the Varnish group. It might take a littler long prep as to getting rid of the oil build-up before you can varnish but after you have varnished your woodwork it will stay pristine for at least 3 years or more and when using a cover you might get more time out of it. After you have made the prep and have a good undercoat surface of varnish re-varnishing doesn't take any longer then applying oil and you can still do that in the marina talking to your fellow boaters.
Just my $0.02
Skipper E-J
m/v "Clumsy Cleat" a 2008 Montauk 150 |
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| Jay Fitz |
Posted on 02/25/14 - 12:50 PM
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At the beginning of last season, on my 1978 Montauk, I used teak oil on the RPS, console doors and bow locker cover...cleaned and sanded it all first. The mahogany pieces: cooler cleats, console cleats, and bimini cleats on the inside of the hull were all varnished w/ Interlux Schooner Gold...everything looked great!
When I pulled the boat in October, the teak was all dark and dull while the mahogany still looked great! When I take the shrink off in May, if the mahogany still looks great, I have decided to varnish the teak as well. I like the natural and stock "idea" of oiling the teak...but sanding and oiling every spring and have it look like crap come August is just not what I want.
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| spuds |
Posted on 02/25/14 - 1:00 PM
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Pretty sure that none of the teak that ever came from the Whaler factory came varnished.
But the Mahogany that came from the factory, was always varnished.
I guess as a result, to me, teak looks funny varnished.
1985 Outrage 18 |
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| Jay Fitz |
Posted on 02/25/14 - 1:39 PM
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spuds wrote:
Pretty sure that none of the teak that ever came from the Whaler factory came varnished.
But the Mahogany that came from the factory, was always varnished.
I guess as a result, to me, teak looks funny varnished.
That is correct from what I understand...and at first I thought I wouldn't mind maintaining the teak with oil...but I'm getting lazy and I like the wood to look good. I thought that varnished teak looked unnatural at first, but now I think that for the short amount of time that it does look good oiled (2 months?) I'd rather go with varnish to have it look good all season...maybe two seasons!
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 02/25/14 - 1:52 PM
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After years of having the same experience Matt describes, and watching my teak get thinner and thinner from all the continuous sanding/oiling, I also decided to stop the craziness and "lock the thickness in" with varnish. Varnish, done properly, lasts and lasts, and always looks great. And if the surface gets a little dull, it can be buffed back to high gloss with 3M Finess-it II. Even re-coating with 2 coats, as it eventually becomes necessary, is a lot less work then the sanding/oiling cycles.
I use a teak oil based stain (Zar #120) before varnishing. This gives a slightly initial darker color, but quickly lightens in the UV. It protects the wood from UV damage, and slows no yellowing over the years.
I use Z-Spar "Flagship" varnish which has high UV inhibitor content.
I change some of the fastner details to avoid them cutting the varnish skin. I put a small fender washer under the trim ring details, and change out the countersunk oval head screws to pan head screws with a washer. The latter required drilling out the countersink in the teak 3/8" dia , installing a teak peg, and redrilling the now flush surface from the back side. This must be done before the varnish work.
Here is my all varnished 1979 Montauk:
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/lgolt...6631388007
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| Jay Fitz |
Posted on 02/25/14 - 4:24 PM
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Finnegan wrote:
I change some of the fastner details to avoid them cutting the varnish skin. I put a small fender washer under the trim ring details, and change out the countersunk oval head screws to pan head screws with a washer. The latter required drilling out the countersink in the teak 3/8" dia , installing a teak peg, and redrilling the now flush surface from the back side. This must be done before the varnish work.
What would the downside be if this was not done? Meaning, what happens if the "varnish skin" gets cut?
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 02/25/14 - 5:03 PM
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Once the varnish skin is cut, it starts to fail as water and moisture get under it. Often the varnish will chip right off the teak.
The sharp edges of the trim ring, as the screw is tightened down, will cut the varnish like a razor blade.
For years Whaler did this on all of the mahogany interiors, and they all have black rings around the screws where water turned the mahogany black as the surrounding urethane yellowed and failed. Countersunk oval head screws do the same thing, and break the varnish.
Even with a flat washer, you have to be careful, because if the varnish is not fully cured (about a month!) the washer, and fittings, will bond to it, and can take the varnish off with the washer when you remove the washer at any later date.
This system is not perfect, and involves a little more woodworking effort, but it has worked for me and kept my varnished teak looking nice for years. I get a lot of dockside compliments on the varnish work on my Whalers. And whatever you do, don't use Cetol!
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| egerrity |
Posted on 02/26/14 - 5:28 AM
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I use Interlux Schooner on my teak. I have found it to last a very long time especially if you keep the console and RPS covered when the boat is not in use. I just took the teak off the boat for the first time in about 3 years or so to sand it down and put a couple of new coats on. There is only a couple of corners and spots that have broken down. I will sand them well and apply some extra coats to those areas to build it up. The prep for applying varnish is the most important part. Sand sand sand... then sand more to get the grain level. I will post some pics when completed.
Ed
1991 Montauk 17 - 2012 ETEC 90HP |
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| Jay Fitz |
Posted on 02/26/14 - 8:20 AM
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egerrity wrote:
Sand sand sand... then sand more to get the grain level. I will post some pics when completed.
So, as I see it, sanding for varnish would happen less because it's not done as often as you would with the oil? Sanding every spring is what bothers me...over time, the wood will become thinner and thinner.
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| gchuba |
Posted on 02/26/14 - 8:51 AM
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When I initially re-did my teak. I cleaned, sanded and sanded. I went with the oil. When I re oil I activate the old surface with mineral spirits (I might have to check the can but I activate with the component in the oil). I scuff it up with a nylon/plastic pad (material on backside of some dish sponges) wipe down and clean. The wood stays raised and grainy, I might hit a bad spot with some sand paper. I oil, I like the look. No "thinning" of the wood from over sanding. I also believe it would be difficult to loss enough material through sanding to make a difference. However, running the wood through a planer to remove a warp....
gchuba
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| egerrity |
Posted on 02/26/14 - 9:04 AM
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the major sanding to make it smooth is only done once, after you build up the varnish coats you will only be sanding the varnish to add maintenance over the years.
Ed
1991 Montauk 17 - 2012 ETEC 90HP |
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| fred s |
Posted on 02/26/14 - 10:41 AM
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Finnegan the washer idea is a great one. Just wish I had done that many years ago. Thanks.
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| jharrell |
Posted on 02/26/14 - 1:32 PM
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I plan to varnish my Montauk teak at some point. I really like Waterlox in my woodworking projects and they have a marine formulation that I need to test out on teak.
One thing I always wonder about when looking at Finnegan's beautiful work is how slippery is the bow locker cover? I know on my boat of all the teak it get's the most abuse and I would not want it to be slippery when wet.
Any comments on this detail?
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| aeriksen |
Posted on 02/26/14 - 3:33 PM
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When I removed the fuel fill fitting and other fittings from the teak gunnel's I noticed how much teak was removed over the years. I bet the fuel fitting was sitting a good 1/16" proud of the surrounding wood. I then varnished in hopes of reducing the amount of wood removal in the future years. (1984 18' Outrage)
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 02/26/14 - 5:42 PM
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I started varnishing when I discovered the same thing aericksen describes.
Wearing Sperry boat shoes, I have not noticed any problem with slippery varnish locker covers or hatch covers.
Fred - Thank you. Seeing the photos of your Revenge 25, I remember you well from the 1993 Whaler Bahamas trip. See the personal website link for photos of my Outrage 25, which I'm sure you will also remember. Those were the days! Hope all is well with you and family. Larry
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| mattroche |
Posted on 02/28/14 - 7:07 AM
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Thanks Everyone! I wish I could say I'm any closer to making a decision. Finnegan's advice makes perfect sense, but it would add more work, which I'm trying to avoid.
When I was a kid working in the boat yard we used to use a two part cleaning system that required we used gloves. I'm sure it was really bad for the environment and my health, but damn did it do an incredible job cleaning teak. I've been using Amazon's cleaner and oil for years. Anyone out there that can speak to one of these types of cleaners?
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 02/28/14 - 7:42 AM
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NEVER Use those awful two-part teak cleaners. Thy will eat up your teak. If you have been using that on your teak prior to applying Amazon's Golden Teak Oil, that is a big part of your problem.
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| gchuba |
Posted on 02/28/14 - 10:17 AM
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I love reading these forums because I always feel there is something to learn. It is nice to know that with diligence you do not have to strip the varnish each time you do maintenance. I still like the oiled look and the work that goes into maintaining it. However, on the underside of my bait table (as well as the underside of my Anchor Pulpit) the mildew black spots are a "drag" to work on. A couple of other incidental hard to get at areas included. I use clorox for the mildew black and elbow grease (sometimes with some TSP) for cleaning. Always with fresh rags. Then the Mineral Spirits. Is there a sealant or varnish that is a semi-gloss or flat that could work for me? The glossy finish (as beautiful as it is to some) is not my cup of tea.
gchuba
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