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Down is up and Up is down. Trim issue.
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| glfarnes |
Posted on 08/28/12 - 6:22 PM
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I have twin 1997 115hp ocean runners and the port tilt/trim works fine but on the starboard engine both front and rear controls work backward. Down is up and up is down. My wife and I spent considerable time today tracing wires and we are 99.99% sure that the wires on both engines match. I replaced the switch on the shift lever and the wires on that end match also. Anyone have a clue? I can live with this but would just as soon put it in order if possible.
Jerry
1989 22' Guardian Dive Boat - twin 1997 115 Johnsons |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 08/28/12 - 7:18 PM
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I suggest you reverse the wire connections on the trim switch for the starboard motor.
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 08/28/12 - 9:17 PM
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1996 and up should have the modular wire harness with Deutsch connectors.
See this diagram.
http://www.whalercentral.com/images/a...Colors.jpg
Red is power
Blue wire is "Up"
Green wire is "Down"
The wires can be removed from the connectors and changed if necessary.
See this article.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=72
If you don't have the 1996 and up, you can still change the wires but it is a little different.
Let us know.
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| glfarnes |
Posted on 08/29/12 - 11:19 AM
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I appreciate your suggestion Tom, but I am the ultimate anal when it comes to things like this. I will change the wires in the plugs on both ends if I have to but this is a very perplexing problem and I'd love to find the solution. As I said, we've traced all wires and they match the other engine and we have the diagrams (thanks Joe) but we can't seem to make sense of this.
Jerry
1989 22' Guardian Dive Boat - twin 1997 115 Johnsons |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 08/29/12 - 12:28 PM
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I had one just like this once.
It is very simple.
You take the trim switch connector apart on the trim switch end only.
(The first connector is this photo. http://www.whalercentral.com/images/a...Colors.jpg)
Put the Green wire were the Blue one is and put the Blue wire where the Green one was.
Put the connector back together and you are finished.
Should take about 5 or 10 minutes to figure it out.
The connector snaps apart by removing the largest orange piece first.
This orange piece is called the "Lock Wedge" in this article.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=72
Look at Parts Needed #3
The article shows a 8 pin connector but the 3 pin is basically the same.
Edited by Joe Kriz on 08/29/12 - 12:30 PM |
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| glfarnes |
Posted on 08/29/12 - 1:01 PM
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I worked for a chief in the Coast guard back in the stone age that would tar, feather and flay the meat from my bones if I couldn't explain why something wasn't working. I will probably end up doing what you say Joe but I'll never be happy until I discover why.
Jerry
1989 22' Guardian Dive Boat - twin 1997 115 Johnsons |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 08/29/12 - 1:13 PM
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My guess from my experience.
Someone miss wired the trim switch itself by putting the colored wires backwards.
Some switches can be removed from the throttle handle and turned around.
Some can't.
I don't know what Binnacle mount you have.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=56
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| Turpin |
Posted on 08/29/12 - 6:12 PM
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Remember with OMC trim control wiring- Green (grass) is Down, Blue (sky) is up, at least on the earlier stuff.
1963 13' Sport 50hp Evinrude
Maintaining a level of sanity that is socially acceptable |
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| glfarnes |
Posted on 08/29/12 - 11:35 PM
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We have followed every wire through every plug from the forward switches on the dual throttle (matches the lower left in your link Joe) to the relay block and then from the engine mounted switch back to the relays. The only wires I haven't verified would be the wires to the motor itself which would be difficult. The relay block is impossible to change and is identical to the other engine and this is what is odd is that we have traced both the wiring on the correctly functioning engine and the backward one. Both are identical in every way and yet one works backward. I assume that if I switch the blue and green wires front and rear all will be well, but I hate splicing wires if I can avoid it.
Jerry
1989 22' Guardian Dive Boat - twin 1997 115 Johnsons |
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| dbcollen |
Posted on 08/30/12 - 7:42 AM
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if you switch them at both ends it will be exacttly the same, the electrons don't care what color the insulation is, you need to switch the wires at one end only, and that should not require any splicing.
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 08/30/12 - 8:38 AM
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I see your point Jerry, especially if you're out on the water and something goes wrong with that system. Always good to know what's happening and why....
Could it be that someone replaced one of the trim motors at some point and wired it up backwards? If you can get a volt meter on the connection points that run to the motor, you can activate the up and check the polarity, then do the same on the other motor. If they're both the same (which it sounds like it will be given what you've traced already), that means one of the motors was wired backwards.
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 08/30/12 - 10:18 AM
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Still haven't mentioned which Binnacle control you have.
Or, do you have separate trim switches that are not in the controls?
I also didn't see when you said you started having problems.
Did you just rewire this boat? Add new controls? What?
Can you to tell us more about what controls and switches you have.
Something is obviously different to me like I mentioned above.
Edited by Joe Kriz on 08/30/12 - 10:22 AM |
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| glfarnes |
Posted on 08/30/12 - 10:24 PM
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Joe, the control is the dual type in the lower left of the photo on your link. The port motor is pretty much stock and correct in all ways. The Starboard had major corrosion problems with the wiring with many spices and incorrect routing and was a rats nest so major that the cowling would not fit. The Starboard lift switch was faulty with no up function and the down function worked as up. I found a good used switch in a box of spare parts that had to have poor splices repaired with solder and heat shrink. When finished it tested fine on the bench and the engine other than it functions backward. I believe I've been told that just switching the green and blue on the front will also fix the rear. I don't think this is true since when the front switch is unplugged the rear still works but reversed.
Jerry
1989 22' Guardian Dive Boat - twin 1997 115 Johnsons |
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| contender250 |
Posted on 08/31/12 - 2:49 PM
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May be the wires are ok and you have the switch upside down....
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 08/31/12 - 3:39 PM
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Jerry,
OK, the lower left Binnacle in the first photo on that link is for 1995 and older engines.
To use that control with your new modular harness, there would need to be an adapter. Unless you did it the other way around.
An adapter from your old harness to the new engine.
So, which engine harness do you have?
The old round black cable with a big red plug on the engine end?
http://www.whalercentral.com/images/a...arness.jpg
Or the newer modular engine harness.
http://www.whalercentral.com/images/a...Colors.jpg
I hope you have the newer one as that's what your engine should have.
If not, I certainly would suggest replacing the spliced up harness you have now with a new style one.
They aren't that expensive as I have found them on eBay fairly reasonable.
NOTE:
If you had to solder the wires to the used switch you found, then you might have put the wires on the wrong terminals. At this point, I think all you need to do is change the wires at the switch. Put the blue wire were the green was is and visa versa.
Right now, when you push up, the current is going to the green wire. That is why the motor is going down instead of up.
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| glfarnes |
Posted on 09/01/12 - 1:16 PM
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I've looked all of this over several times and am only coming up with one issue and I'm not sure if that could be the problem or not. The Helm link that you posted is not the same vintage that I have but mine is very similar to the lower left dual set up. The switches are covered by red symbols rather than black. I can assure you that all of my work matches factory and that it all matches the schematic with only one exception that I suppose could cause the problem. That would be that the switch set on the engine has red symbols. The wires are all the same color so I don't think this earlier or later switch as the case may be would be wired differently. Also to "contender250" it would be impossible to install the switch upside down due to the shape. I have to launch tomorrow at the latest and it's raining cats and dogs today so I will have to use it as is. The halibut are waiting.
Jerry
1989 22' Guardian Dive Boat - twin 1997 115 Johnsons |
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